Rudd for ALP Leadership? - Print Topic

I have so hoped Rudd would get the leadership for a while now, it would make such a difference to the perception of the Labour Party and hopefully to the votes.
:D

yeah if Mr Charisma doesn't get the votes in who can................................

One thing that Johnny has taught us is that you don't need charisma to be the PM. So what is it that Johnny has to be so popular, ah thats right, he lies!

Perhaps Rudd should start telling some porkies ...

I really like Kevin Rudd, ever since I first heard him speak on TV. Some old stallwarts will say he is too young but I, as a 51 yr old voter, think we need younger leaders. I am a swinging voter and Kevin Rudd as leader of the Labour Party would certainly get my attention. Kim Beazley is like the bad penny that keeps turning up.

Quoted from SuziH

Some old stallwarts will say he is too young but I, as a 51 yr old voter, think we need younger leaders.

Spot on!

I am sick and tired of the 1950's politics the current generation of politicians are practicing.

They all seem to be real arseholes who are obsessed with wealth and power.

Quoted from x452

... They all seem to be real arseholes who are obsessed with wealth and power.

That's not limited to older people. I know of plenty of 20 somethings that are just the same. I do however think it's time for new blood.

Lathem was put in the job to "revamp" the ALP. Look how well that worked out!

I'm not a fan of the david tench show, but when he asked Gillard which shadow portfolio she'd be handling after the next election it was spot on

I think this is definitely a good thing for the Labour party, maybe I can start to get excited about politics again like I was when I lived in the UK ;)

yep , i reckon ya can now ....at long last there is a REAL threat too Mr. Coward.

now, bring the next election on !

Rudd topples Beazley in leadership vote
Monday Dec 4 11:50 AEDT

Kevin Rudd is the new Labor party leader, toppling Kim Beazley by 49 votes to 39 in a party room ballot.

Labor MPs applauded as Mr Rudd's bigger than expected win was announced to the party room following the secret ballot.

But there was also disappointment for Mr Beazley, a 25-year parliamentary veteran who was serving his third term as opposition leader since 1996.

For more.... http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=167505

I didn't know until today that Kevin Rudd was raised in Nambour (10 mins from me) where his sister still lives in the family home, and went to school in Nambour.

Gee, everywhere Rudd goes, Gillard is on a string following, talk about Pinky and Perky, or is it Bill and Ben..................
Howard has nothing to fear from these wannabees..................

some of my mates (18 to about 30 years) have said things every now and then about voting for rudd if he ran ... so, he has our vote without a doubt!!!

He's so cool.... go Kevin!! :p

He reminds me of the German kid from the Simpsons (minus the glasses).

Quoted from x452

He reminds me of the German kid from the Simpsons (minus the glasses).

And Gillard is straight out of Kath & Kim

Quoted Text

He's so cool.... go Kevin!!

OMG ::)

Quoted from x452

He reminds me of the German kid from the Simpsons (minus the glasses).

This is scary:

There might be a slight resemblance to the PM but I believe he is morally opposite to the PM, which is good for this country.

Quoted from aquamonkey

And Gillard is straight out of Kath & Kim

OMG ::)

wait, wait... You guys are comparing him to a simpsons kid that looks NOTHING like him AND I'm getting the omg ... pfft. back at ya aquamonkey ::)

It's not just a physical resemblence I was referring to, the German kid on the Simpson is very smart, a geek. His character reminds me of Rudd.

sorry x452 .. i know, ur right, it was a good spot but I think I was just cut I was getting slammed in eblah for supporting the new kid with a fun lil, bimbo... go kevin! its just having a lil fun guys...

Don't get me wrong, I like Rudd too. Should be interesting with him as leader, hopefully he can turn johnny inside out with his intellect.

Johnny speaks like a simpleton, and unfortunately I think people like that about him. If Rudd can figure out how to get his intelligent views across to the majority he'll do well.

He's on the right track with his "listening tour", where he's listening to what Australians want (something the current Government couldn't give a sh*t about), let's hope he translates that into good policies.

Quoted Text

KEVIN Rudd and Julia Gillard have made their first stumble as the Labor leadership team, wrongly accusing the Howard Government of slashing the funding for adult migrant education programs.

The gaffe was a repeat of a mistake Mr Rudd made in September, when he told ABC television the Coalition had cut $11 million from its Adult Migrant English Program.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20918059-2,00.html

ALP should have a nice bickering session going at the moment. Wonder how Karl Rove is doing........

Rudd a popular Labor choice: poll
The Labor Party has received a popularity boost in the wake of its federal leadership change.

In a Newspoll published in today's The Australian, Labor's primary vote has climbed seven points to 46 per cent.

In the preferred prime minister measure, 36 per cent of voters would prefer Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd as prime minister.

That is an increase of 11 points on Kim Beazley's last Newspoll result.

However Prime Minister John Howard is still ahead on 39 per cent.

Mr Rudd says his party still has a lot of work to do.

"Labor Party members should take a cold shower when they look at these poll results today," he said.

"I think it represents at this stage a protest vote against Mr Howard, who's increasingly out of touch.

"But it does not yet represent an entrenched vote for the Labor Party or myself.

"We're going to need to work hard over the next nine months to earn the electorate's respect."
Last week Mr Howard warned government members of Parliament to expect Labor to get a bounce in the polls and be ahead for up to three months.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200612/s1809290.htm

I like Rudd and think he will make a fine PM. Always been a fan of the wonderful Julia Gillard. Let's hope they can win next year and start bringing australia back to the left

I think I like rudd ok but I am not so sure about julia gillard. her speech on the radio reminded me of professor umbridge in harry potter. :P

Quoted Text

FEDERAL Labor leader Kevin Rudd has unveiled his vision for Sydney, promising a massive cash injection for the Penrith fast rail link and the M7 to F3 motorway and a new national infrastructure fund for the city.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20948422-5007132,00.html

Actually a good idea. Pitty it has not been put in place over the last 10 years by the current state government.. THE CURRENT LABOR STATE GOVERNMENT!

Since I don't live in western sydney though it's doing nuth'n for me

Quoted from dara

I think I like rudd ok but I am not so sure about julia gillard. her speech on the radio reminded me of professor umbridge in harry potter. :P

I dunno... I like both Dara - they seriously appeal to the younger generation that�s for sure. When I think of Howard I think of him as an older man who may have worked hard many many years ago but he's simply fallen out of touch with the Australian generation of today. The average Australians worries are the fact that � we could get fired over anything our employer doesn�t like � we work sooo hard with extreme hours and see no benefits at the end. With the cost of everything rising well past what we�re getting paid � we need our benefits! :(

Anyway, when I think of Rudd I think of a politician who knows enough to get our country moving again. To remember it's the people that make up a good country. Rudd has a young family and he's a lot more in-touch with the everyday Australian then Howard could ever be in the future. Rudd also has this huge likeability factor to him and he comes across as honest.

I dunno, this is all just a novice voters opinion .. I do know I'm voting Rudd next election though. :)

I am torn, between voting against Howards IR laws, but to do so now means voting for a man I despise, I think independants will get my vote.

No doubt a johnny supporter responsible for this. Sums up the calibre of some of them.

As much as I and many others despise Howard, I don't recall anything like this happening to him.

Quoted Text

Paracetamol sent to Kevin Rudd's office
Wednesday Feb 14 14:04 AEDT

Federal Labor leader Kevin Rudd's Brisbane office was evacuated after the discovery of a suspicious-looking substance, police say.

Emergency crews evacuated Mr Rudd's Morningside office, in Brisbane's east, after a staff member found a suspicious white substance in an envelope addressed to the building about 9.20am (AEST) on Wednesday.

"Initially it's indicated it's paracetamol and it's been sent away for further tests," a police spokesman said.

He said the investigation had been handed over to the Australian Federal Police and it is unknown whether charges will follow.

Emergency services cleared the building and Mr Rudd's two staff members were allowed to return to the office about two hours later.

No adjoining buildings were evacuated.

�AAP 2007

Quoted from x452

No doubt a johnny supporter responsible for this. Sums up the calibre of some of them.

::) Yeah right. It's probably just some idiot living in brisbane, is their a shortage of them?

Rudd would be a weak leader for Australia - he just goes with flow, no one really knows for sure what he believes in or what he stands for - anyway, my frog is gunna win the next election. Move over Rudderless and Johnny.

I suspect something more sinister akin to the �horses head� used by the mafia as a warning to toe-the-line. Could it be the CIA?

Quoted from pebble

Rudd would be a weak leader for Australia - he just goes with flow, no one really knows for sure what he believes in or what he stands for - anyway, my frog is gunna win the next election. Move over Rudderless and Johnny.

...and Howard who only responds to polls, popular opinion and the US administration is his own man?

At least Rudd has clearly stated what his views are, makes his points succinctly instead of Howard's now wishy washy back flipping stuff, and Rudd has been acting like a leader instead of a tired old man who should have retired when he promised Costello he would (just another of his long line of broken promises).

Anyone here get the news that Pauline Hansen is back and running in the next election. Im sure boomslanger will be positively thrilled with these latest developments.

go Pauline Hansen , she will keep the gov lively

Quoted from chris

go Pauline Hansen , she will keep the gov lively

Given she's been on a TV series it's a wonder the ALP didn't ask her to join the crew

Howard has stolen her voters and he's more ignorant and redneck than she'll ever be.

I love the way she professed to be a changed woman after her prison term becoming best friends with a young Aboriginal girl and then apologising for being a redneck. Now she's done an about-face and is banging on about disease ravaged Africans and democracy hating Muslims. Ahh, welcome back Pauline, glad to see you still have your spots. Good luck to you.

Quoted from boomslanger

At least Rudd has clearly stated what his views are, makes his points succinctly instead of Howard's now wishy washy back flipping stuff, and Rudd has been .

How can Rudd support the expansion of uranium mining but not support nuclear power. What does he think other countries are using it for? Does that come under the title of wishy washy politics?

Like any or at least the majority of opposition leaders, Rudd's opinion is simply the opposite of whatever the government puts on the plate. If Howard chose not to comment on an issue he wouldn't know which way to go

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

How can Rudd support the expansion of uranium mining but not support nuclear power. What does he think other countries are using it for? Does that come under the title of wishy washy politics?

How limp is that line of argument. What Rudd has clearly stated, as did the Australian of the year is that some countries have no choice but to go nuclear and those that are now relying it so heavily must be kept supplied until alternates are implemented over the decades (which is what Sweden is planning).

Australia has absolutely no need for nuclear energy. We have an abundance of renewables, leading renewable technologies (that have mostly been sold offshore because Howard won't support them, like plastic solar cells instead of silicon) and can have clean coal up and running as a stop gap at one tenth the cost of nuclear energy until renewable technologies are established.

Nothing wishy washy there, unlike Howard who does secret deals with a Liberal power broker and failed businessmen to setup a nuclear power plant even before he called the enquiry.

Quoted Text

Like any or at least the majority of opposition leaders, Rudd's opinion is simply the opposite of whatever the government puts on the plate. If Howard chose not to comment on an issue he wouldn't know which way to go.

What bull. The mark of Rudd has been his leading and being on the front foot whilst it is Howard government who are making all the personal attacks, retractions and negative comments. As one of the Canberra press gallery said, they have never seen Howard have a worse week in parliament of being on the back foot whilst putting his foot in it.

When even Andrew Bolt has a go at Howard, as he did twice on The Insiders last Sunday, then you know Howard is on the outer.

What are you doing giving Bolt publicity on this forum; this is a family friendly place, scrub your fingers with soap immediately.

What has Rudd come up with that we haven't heard from the ALP before? Building a high speed rail link in Sydney's west is about all I've heard. Of coarse you have to wonder why he's proposing this rather his NSW counterparts who have been in power for the last 12 years (and have achieved nothing apart from selling Sydney to Macquarie Bank for the last 11 years and 11 months. Do all of them have mac happy jobs lined up yet). Of coarse it's the rail links to Sydneys North and South that are falling apart anyway....

Is Medicare Gold back on the agenda yet? That was a big hit, lets make it cheaper for a group of people who go to the doctors twice a week for a checkup to get medical assistance

Strange that you mention Medicare Gold, Howard has taken many of the things in it and Abbott has announced he will be implementing them, but of course under a different name and of course saying it is all their doing. Medicare Gold was universally accepted across the medical community as a good policy in basis, and it was yet again a Howard hatchet and scare campaign that had it denigrated. In fact many of Howard's policies over the last 10 years have been Labor ideas or policies denigrated by the coalition at the time and then implemented at a later date under a new name.

Looking at failed policies (which the Howard government is littered with) what about the latest data from the ABS on the new IR legislation, what a turkey that is turning into?

boomslanger I work in the medical community it WAS NOT accepted, bulk billing changes put in after the last election (promises made during the election) such as Medicare plus bulk billing insentive items have nothing to do with anything the ALP have come up with. And Medical industry aside the public, the one's who chose which bunch of liars get control laughed at Medicare Gold. The only problem with healthcare is as Mike Gibson put it the governments minister for health is the person most in need of a heart transplant!

Oh on scare tactics lets look at the ALP's constant bey-atching about declining bulk billing rates!!

Quoted from tramp

What are you doing giving Bolt publicity on this forum; this is a family friendly place, scrub your fingers with soap immediately.

That's funny. I came to know of this bafoon because my wife used to debate him on the Age forums, obviously he was using an alias.

With the recent shake-up/anti-bias changes to the ABC Bolt has now become the "voice of impartiality" on the ABC. Well with a Liberal person now running the ABC what do we expect? How sad.

As my wife has pointed out, Bolt is a champion debater. Nothing he says is intellgient or necessarily factual, but we know that in debates this doesn't really matter.

He's like a pompous school boy who takes pride in debating and winning an argument. He has no facts to back up his arguments, all he does is dismiss everything by 'so-called' experts and says any evidence of reports provided by experts is 'false'.

He's an ultra-conservative that supports everything the Howard Government does without question. Sometimes I wonder who's hand is up who's arse with him and Howard. He's an expert denialist, one of his more recent ones is saying the stolen generation never happened. And if he wasn't a strong Israel supporter (again following Howard's lead), he would probably deny the Holocaust as well.

He appeals to the ignorance within people. He knows the initial reaction of the ignorant or un-enlightened is to fear and hate, especially on issues such as multiculturalism.

Unfortunately he's getting more and more publicity these days, spewing his verbal diarrhoea on anything political on numerous channels. All he does is deny everything and says "show me evidence", and when you do he derides it saying it's either false or produced by a non-credible or left-wing organisation, even though it was probably produced by the foremost experts on the issue who have national or global recognition.

My advice would be to ignore him, he has nothing intelligent to say. Perhaps we should just 'deny' him.

Aquamonkey, you'd love him.

x452 you're the one who can never change your opinion. I'd rather you keep your big mouth shut than throw insults my way

Quoted from aquamonkey

I'd rather you keep your big mouth shut than throw insults my way

Hey you're the die hard Howard/Liberal lover, you opened yourself right up. A properly balanced person has the power to criticise both sides of politics and wouldn't waste their time standing by a lame duck party or a lame duck PM who have nothing to offer this country (and I'm not necessarily saying that Labour does).

Quoted from aquamonkey

x452 you're the one who can never change your opinion.

On the contrary I am capable of changing my opinion. For example I used to support the U.S. but now do not. I didn't used to believe Howard was evil but now I do.

Opening that jar of "reality" that was hidden away in my cupboard was the best thing I ever did, you should try it sometime ;-)

Quoted from aquamonkey

x452 you're the one who can never change your opinion. I'd rather you keep your big mouth shut than throw insults my way

Dont give them the satisfaction. The more desperate their issues become the more sticks, stones and names that will come flying youre way. They are so set in stone in their ways that demeaning you somehow justifies their cause. Remember it is they who are in the minority and who has failed in the last three elections about as dismally as britneys last haircut.

Quoted from aquamonkey

boomslanger I work in the medical community it WAS NOT accepted, bulk billing changes put in after the last election (promises made during the election) such as Medicare plus bulk billing insentive items have nothing to do with anything the ALP have come up with. And Medical industry aside the public, the one's who chose which bunch of liars get control laughed at Medicare Gold. The only problem with healthcare is as Mike Gibson put it the governments minister for health is the person most in need of a heart transplant!

Oh on scare tactics lets look at the ALP's constant bey-atching about declining bulk billing rates!!

Being in the medical community you should be completely anti-Howard, unless you are in the employ or management of a private practice or medical provider, then that would explain your stance.

The AMA reservedly backed it under the proviso Labor could prove it was sustainable but because of Howard's scare campaign that was never going to happen. It is Howard who is the master of scare and like his little puppet you just repeat whatever he comes out with, even his saying it is Labor who is running a fear campaign when all they are doing is putting the truth out there.

Quoted Text

The evidence shows it is the rich who are benefiting most from MedicarePlus, writes Charles Livingstone, senior research fellow in the Faculty of Health Sciences at La Trobe University..' The truth about Abbott's safety net. The most affluent parts of Australia have consumed most of the safety net payments. The cost of the safety net is blowing out to 250 million or more, double the original price tag. Only those with enough money to pay the bill go to see a specialist so its no surprise to hear that affluent liberal electorates spent most of the safety net money.

The safety net covers those who spend big on specialists but offers no control on costs versus the ALP policy which delivers free care to the neediest. (Bob McMullan trawls through Treasury health figures)

Quoted Text

Analysis

While most articles focus on who promised what there is also some interesting analysis. Kenneth Davidson in the Age: 'The Howard changes to the health system are taking Australia rapidly down the road towards the US health system where the nation spends 13-14 per cent of GDP on health and has worse health outcomes in terms of infant mortality, longevity and morbidity than most OECD countries.' Ultimately, experts agree that a national review of the health system, investigating cost-shifting, duplication and the missed opportunities of our disconnected health system will move Australia closer to the accessible and affordable system foremost in voters' minds, say Ruth Pollard and Mark Metherell. Even the Australian, September 24, 2004, thinks, 'Health system needs a vision.'
[quote]Public hospitals and the Doctors who work in them welcome Medicare Gold

Quoted Text

The final word goes to Charles Livingstone writing in The Age, "This is a slightly surreal election campaign for many reasons, but one of the more diverting is the spectacle of the Howard Government trying to outspend the ALP on Medicare."

Quoted Text

Catholic health backs Medicare Gold saying that it is a fair and practical solution. Pensioners and health care providers have welcomed the Federal Labor Party's plan to pay for hospital care for elderly Australians. The Liberals are keen to pour cold water on the whole idea. Abbott criticises Medicare Gold, says it can't be done and blames public hospital problems on the States. Howard says Medicare gold scheme will blow out hospital waiting lists.

...and dozens of similar articles. It was only the private health system that canned it. And talking about that, what about Howard's failed health policy, it has just given millions into the pockets of rich private practice owners, created a two tier system and against his promise it would decrease medical costs they keep going up as the private operators continue to skim more from the taxpayers. And I hear there is another hefty health insurance premium rise coming up.

American Health here we come:

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Dont give them the satisfaction. The more desperate their issues become the more sticks, stones and names that will come flying youre way. They are so set in stone in their ways that demeaning you somehow justifies their cause. Remember it is they who are in the minority and who has failed in the last three elections about as dismally as britneys last haircut.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, and you confirm it by ending in belittlement, always the first and last resort of the right. The Liberals are dishing it out in droves at the moment in squeaky and panicky little voices as they are being found out for the deceivers and scare merchants they have always been.

Its getting exciting in here isnt it. My squeaky tiny panicky voice can harldy contain itself. :'(

You must admit it was a pretty bad haircut.

Quoted Text

The evidence shows it is the rich who are benefiting most from MedicarePlus, writes Charles Livingstone, senior research fellow in the Faculty of Health Sciences at La Trobe University..' The truth about Abbott's safety net. The most affluent parts of Australia have consumed most of the safety net payments. The cost of the safety net is blowing out to 250 million or more, double the original price tag. Only those with enough money to pay the bill go to see a specialist so its no surprise to hear that affluent liberal electorates spent most of the safety net money.

Well bugger me with a fishfork a senior research fellow would be have a hard time with the cash to go to the doctors.

The Medicare Plus scheme for starters provides additional payment to ALL doctors who bulk bill.

Finding a doctor who bulk bills Now pay attention cause this is the tricky bit. If you are living in a high income area say for example Sydney's North Shore your doctor is not going to bulk bill, you're going to pay atleast $40, get an invoice printed and you can take it into Medicare. If you live in the Western Suburbs, you'll walk out to the receptionist, hand over your Medicare Card and eventually Medicare Australia, the only outfit in Canberra doing less than parliament House, deposit the money into their bank account. We could always bring in details about electronic bulk billing, how an entry level computer package would set you back about $500 and the rebate from the government for practice management systems is $500 (minimum) but lets keep a lid on that!

Quoted Text

rich private practice owners

What as opposed to "mega filthy" rich health companies like Sonic!

You want to talk about rip offs in Health look how Morris Dilemma and the merry-go-round of ministers can't keep hospitals open long enough for an ambulance to pull up

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Remember it is they who are in the minority

You're probably right. Howard will probably win the next election although the Republicans in the U.S. and Labor in the U.K. will probably get voted out, what does that tell you about us?

Those with your way of thinking have been ruling the world for a very long time, and you wonder why the world is so messed up?

The other guy hasn't even had a chance. It's time the more "central thinkers" had a go.

It's interesting how right-wingers see everyone else as left, they don't see centrists. However, those of us in the centre see right as well as left wing extremes. I wonder who the balanced ones are.

Quoted from aquamonkey

I'd rather you keep your big mouth shut than throw insults my way

I actually didn't mean to insult you. I was talking about Bolt and then drew the correlation between some of his arguments and yours. If you find it insulting to agree with Bolt then that's your problem.

I think Im pretty liberal on most issues( not the party). I support stem cell research, am pro choice for abortion and support gay marriage, but nobody seems interested in these subjects. People base who you are in where you stand in the war on terror usually. Dont think Im anti labor. I liked some off Kim Beazly's thinking and thought he would have made a good, humble prime minister. I voted for Mike Rann in my home state although I dont agree with everything he says and he is labor. Unfortunately what we say in these pages is only looking through a periscope of what we are really like. I don't hate you're opinion I just give you my indifference.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

I think Im pretty liberal on most issues( not the party). I support stem cell research, am pro choice for abortion and support gay marriage, but nobody seems interested in these subjects. People base who you are in where you stand in the war on terror usually. Dont think Im anti labor. I liked some off Kim Beazly's thinking and thought he would have made a good, humble prime minister. I voted for Mike Rann in my home state although I dont agree with everything he says and he is labor. Unfortunately what we say in these pages is only looking through a periscope of what we are really like. I don't hate you're opinion I just give you my indifference.

I think I pretty much see them all as a bunch of complete ********! They all get paid a bucketload, get driven around in big cars & will retire and live of the public $$$ for the rest of their lives whenever they fall to far from grace, if you think one political party will stand up for joe average forget it.

That said while I don't agree with all of the liberals policies I do believe they can run the country better than Labor could. Hell I've said it before I'll say it a million more times the only place Labor has run NSW is into the ground, why risk them running the country

Why does it seem that I am one of the only one who does not like Kevin Rudd?
He reminds me of a little nerdy kid.

He didn't have one hell of a lot to say in parliament today

Quoted Text

He reminds me of a little nerdy kid.

Yeah but, look at Howard! It's a wonder either of them make it to work with their lunch money :P

Quoted from TSS

Why does it seem that I am one of the only one who does not like Kevin Rudd?
He reminds me of a little nerdy kid.

Just what I thought about Bill Gates when I first met him.

Quoted from aquamonkey

He didn't have one hell of a lot to say in parliament today

No wonder in light of the David Burke affair. The honeymoon is over.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

No wonder in light of the David Burke affair. The honeymoon is over.

That's what I was referring to, didn't even raise his head. Are the ALP ninjas preparing to take out another leader? Is crean up for another run?

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

No wonder in light of the David Burke affair. The honeymoon is over.

Although what Rudd did was wrong in meeting with Burke, I don't see what the huge fuss is about. Is there evidence that Rudd made a deal with Burke?

The country's up in arms over a storm in a tea cup. This is small potatoes compared to the corruption that was AWB or the lies that was Iraq. Just goes to show the Liberals are better at being shady than Labor!

Speaking of corruption, Howard's all but decided that we're going Nuclear, it has nothing to do with what the public wants and everything to do with the deals he's made with his millionaire (nuclear industry) businessmen buddies.

Quoted from x452

Although what Rudd did was wrong in meeting with Burke, I don't see what the huge fuss is about. Is there evidence that Rudd made a deal with Burke?

I bet if it was around the other way, and it was John Howard it would be a big deal. Its a bit of a cop out to say, yeah look its not as bad as AWB or nuclear power yada yada yada. It wasnt just a minor oversight on Rudds behalf its titanic like iceberg off a mistake. It sounds like it was back when he was busy trying to get numbers so he could oust Beazley. 3 members of labor in Perth have got the sack over this guy so it came as no surprise when Rudd did everything but look at Costello while he was verbalising him.

Yeah I understand this may sound Labor biased, but there is no evidence that Rudd did a deal with him. You can't find him guilty of what "may have happened". Whereas with Howard there was clear evidence against him with AWB and Iraq, but because he determines the enquiries (making him above the law), obviously he didn't allow any findings of incompentency against himself.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

I bet if it was around the other way, and it was John Howard it would be a big deal. Its a bit of a cop out to say, yeah look its not as bad as AWB or nuclear power yada yada yada. It wasnt just a minor oversight on Rudds behalf its titanic like iceberg off a mistake. It sounds like it was back when he was busy trying to get numbers so he could oust Beazley. 3 members of labor in Perth have got the sack over this guy so it came as no surprise when Rudd did everything but look at Costello while he was verbalising him.

Huge difference. Rudd came straight out and said "it was me." Not only that he outed two of his colleagues whose names hadn't even been mentioned by anyone. In other boards even die hard Howard supporters are praising the way Rudd has calmly and openly handled this.

Difference with Howard and it has been a pattern from the day he got into power;

Very first thing he does is deny anything took place or anything happened (children overboard is a perfect example of this), and he and all his ministers keep denying it until it either goes away or he has to move onto phase two.

If the evidence is overwhelming that something has actually occurred that is not quite legit, then he goes into a savage round of shooting the messenger and mercilessly beating up on them, (Wilke is an example of this). That is kept up until the thing either dies down or he has to move onto stage three.

Stage three is blame shift to everyone else but his government (AWB is an example of this) whilst putting out as much flak and side issues as possible. Howard is the master at coming up with distractions when he is in trouble. If that doesn't work then move to stage four.

Run a stacked enquiry as far into the future as possible and then use what is obviously a white wash to state your innocence, and the final out;

Blame a fall guy, sack them but give them a huge reward and payout along with a prime job or position somewhere for taking the fall.

There in lies the lesson on Howard getting away with dozens of improprieties over the years, and why he is so different to the open and honest way Rudd has conducted himself.

If Howard is so open and honest ask yourself why is his the most secretive government in our history, why are public servants and bureaucrats under the threat of the terrorist act is the reveal anything about Howard's goings on, why he has closed reporters getting even basic info under FOI and why has he been the only PM in our history to sound proof his office at great expense, which is already in the middle of a very secure area?

So you cant see any wrong in Rudd's behaviour at all.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

I bet if it was around the other way, and it was John Howard it would be a big deal. . . . .

Howards gaffs have made world headlines AWB = U.N sanctions crossover.
Children overboard and many Ministerial stuff-ups that have been quickly swept aside . . this will be a storm in a teacup too . . just give it a week in 'news time' and a tsunami, earthquake or death of somebody famous will attract the publics attention again . . the public tire of this political nonsense very quickly.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

So you cant see any wrong in Rudd's behaviour at all.

...and you can't see anything wrong with Howard and many of his ministers over the last 10 years. There have been dozens of things, many far worse with the most recent his secret meeting to set up a nuclear power plant with his close mates ensuring they make millions off us tax payers, that was before he set up a multi million dollar enquiry to find on the viability of nuclear.

...and I said Rudd openly admitted his stuff up and said he was wrong so either hang him or let him get on with his work. That is far more than Howard has ever done. Howard is like Fonzie trying to say wrong in front of a mirror.

Ian Campbell resigns over meeting Brian Burke.

Ian Campbell has come out presented all the facts which show he has done nothing wrong but be guilty by association, and as a result has resigned. Is Kevin Rudd headed for the same fate? A total of 5 ministers have lost their jobs.

Im not sure if Rudd should resign but I thought it was kind of childish that he called for an election. Did it sound a bit desperate to you?

Im pretty sure I know what the response will be from the regulars, but don't mad at me I am just updating the story.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21319631-29277,00.html

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Ian Campbell resigns over meeting Brian Burke.

Ian Campbell has come out presented all the facts which show he has done nothing wrong but be guilty by association, and as a result has resigned. Is Kevin Rudd headed for the same fate? A total of 5 ministers have lost their jobs.

Im not sure if Rudd should resign but I thought it was kind of childish that he called for an election. Did it sound a bit desperate to you?

Im pretty sure I know what the response will be from the regulars, but don't mad at me I am just updating the story.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21319631-29277,00.html

THIS is the reason I don't vote ::) . . what a mess.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Ian Campbell resigns over meeting Brian Burke.

Ian Campbell has come out presented all the facts which show he has done nothing wrong but be guilty by association, and as a result has resigned. Is Kevin Rudd headed for the same fate? A total of 5 ministers have lost their jobs.

The libs with egg on their face yet again. They spend an entire day slanging mud at Rudd for meeting with Burke and then one of their own ministers comes out and says he also met with Burke and then resigns, clearly given a golden hand-shake by Johnny because it allows Johnny and the Libs to continue their childish tirade against Rudd (who has apologised, unprecedented for Howard) without Labor being able to hit back at Campbell or the Libs for their involvement with Burke.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Im not sure if Rudd should resign but I thought it was kind of childish that he called for an election. Did it sound a bit desperate to you?

Yes that is a bit childish.

I still don't see what all the hoo-ha is about, the Libs are lining up one by one in Parliament like a bunch of monkeys with poo in their hands waiting to fling it at Rudd. Let's say Rudd did consult Burke over the leadership or even made a deal with him, what's wrong with that? Isn't that "just politics"? Isn't it normal to deal with lobbyists and "numbers men"? In the end Rudd only got 2 out of 9 votes from WA anyway.

Sounds to me like the Libs are blowing this up bigger than Iraq/Nuclear/AWB to take the focus off their own failures. It's completely childish.

The libs have become hysterical as before this they had nothing on Rudd, all they could attack him about was he was inexperienced or he was "trying to be everything to everyone" which is not a bad thing.

Again I fail to see what all the drama is about.

Let's put some context on Ian Campbell's resignation. He has resigned from Cabinet not from Government. The Liberal party refuse to rule out that Ian Campbell won't be given another ministry position, a new cushy job on higher money and/or a golden handshake.

Howard himself ruled out removing Ian Campbell from the party or punishing him financially in any way.

Also Howard stated that Rudd must go as nobody who is not open and candid with the Australian people should be allowed to rule, whether they are the PM or potential PM.

Wait on, this wouldn't be the PM who faced the AWB commission and along with this Foreign minister and Trade minister answered every question with; "I don't recall", "I have no recollection of that meeting", "I can't remember", "I may have met that person by can't remember doing so", etc.

The PM who deliberately lied on Children Overboard so as to demonise refugees.

The PM and his Foreign minister who directly lied in parliament over Iraq.

The PM who through closing down FOI has stopped all journalist getting information on his government's actions and policies.

The PM who sound proofed his office so others could not him ranting and raving (I've heard him in full flight and watching this little man loose it is something ludicrous to behold).

The PM who has bought in punishments of up to 20 years jail under the terrorism act for any public servant or personal staffer whistle blowers who honestly reveals Howard's or his government's misdemeanors.

The PM who has a secret tax payer funded backroom dirt committee.

The PM who has instigated the most secretive and closed government in our history.

Surely not that wasn't the PM who said our PM's should be open and candid.

Quoted from boomslanger

Let's put some context on Ian Campbell's resignation. He has resigned from Cabinet not from Government. The Liberal party refuse to rule out that Ian Campbell won't be given another ministry position, a new cushy job on higher money and/or a golden handshake.

Howard himself ruled out removing Ian Campbell from the party or punishing him financially in any way.

I heard Campbell may be re-instated post election.

Quoted from boomslanger

Also Howard stated that Rudd must go as nobody who is not open and candid with the Australian people should be allowed to rule, whether they are the PM or potential PM.

??) Does he think we the public are retarted (no offense to those that are retarded)? Oh yes, we keep voting for him .

Quoted from boomslanger

Wait on, this wouldn't be the PM who faced the AWB commission and along with this Foreign minister and Trade minister answered every question with; "I don't recall", "I have no recollection of that meeting", "I can't remember", "I may have met that person by can't remember doing so", etc.

We need some clever Keating-esque people on the other side of Politics. Someone that's going to question Johnny's age and if he's too old to be in Politics because his memory seems to fail him too many times. Someone that would say "Glad you could make it to Parliament today John, we thought you may have forgotten, and it's good to see you remembered to wear pants as well".

There's no-one witty in Labor any more. And boy does Costello look like a pork-chop carrying on in Parliament with his attempted wit (it can be amusing at times), we had been thinking Costello must watching old videos of Keating in Parliament and Stephen Smith said it on Insiders. I think Costello has a big picture of Keating which he kisses before he goes to bed every night.

Quoted from boomslanger

The PM who sound proofed his office so others could not him ranting and raving (I've heard him in full flight and watching this little man loose it is something ludicrous to behold).

That's funny. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious that he's our PM. :'(

Rudd's reply to meeting Bourke should have been: "so what"

And if the government persisted he should have then rebuked them for dragging the swamp when they should be looking after the Country.

Who's advising Rudd, can I see a change of staff soon?

Quoted from tramp

Who's advising Rudd, can I see a change of staff soon?

I know who was advising him before(dance)

Well, here's my 2 cents then. I think the Gov have failed to demonstrate that Rudd ever had any intention of making any arrangement with Burke. Maybe that was Burke's motive for arranging the whole thing, but Rudd didn't necessarily know that. The Gov say its inconceivable that Rudd didn't know the purpose of the meeting, but its not hard to imagine a scenario where Rudd thinks its just a meal at a restaurant, but Burke sees it as an opportunity to build a relationship with a possible future PM. Maybe Burke just didn't tell Rudd this was a 'networking' exercise, possibly for fear that Rudd would run the other way.

By the way, as for Rudd not looking at Costello etc, I think its pretty common practice. Howard often has his chair turned to the side and doesn't look when a question's being asked.

If Rudd had not met with Burke and been accused by Howard of misconduct would Campbell still have had to resign?

Quoted from tramp

Rudd's reply to meeting Bourke should have been: "so what"

Exactly. That's the usual Howard response.

Although Rudd's trying to set an example and be more accountable than Howard so he's willing to answer questions.

If Rudd had made a deal with Bourke to arrest the leadership from Beazely (which he denies), so what? That's not illegal. It's normal "practice" in politics. What does it have to do with the Liberals or even us for that matter, it's internal party politics, none of our business.

It's same thing Costello has been trying to do in vain, get the numbers to topple Howard.

Quoted from Ms_Adventure

If Rudd had not met with Burke and been accused by Howard of misconduct would Campbell still have had to resign?

Definitely not. Johnny would have been on his high-horse saying Campbell did nothing wrong, it was just a "chat".

Labor support soars despite mud-slinging

Boomslanger, I take it this is one bikie you would prefer not to ride with!

Swan says PM behaving like a bikie

Howard, Costello and Abbott are looking even more foolish with more revelations of Liberal MP's dealing with Brian Bourke.

Quoted Text

Liberal MP hired Burke as lobbyist
...
Mr Howard confirmed that West Australian federal Liberal MP Geoff Prosser had paid Mr Burke for lobbying services.

Spoiler:
Guest, I'm sorry but you need to register before you can view this text...

�ittle Johnny�s government is now like a ship without a RUDDer, circling around in the sewer.

Quoted from tramp

�ittle Johnny�s government is now like a ship without a RUDDer, circling around in the sewer.

. .

. . . I would have changed a 'p' for a 't' in there somewhere . . makes it more authentic . .

Oh this gets even better. Shovel Johnny shovel!

Before it was one rule for back-benchers and another for Ministers and would-be PM's. Now it's a completely different rule for Liberal Party members. But we knew this all along.

(It's about time investigative-journalism made a come-back)

Quoted Text

Minister linked to Burke and Grill

THE Federal Government's attack on Kevin Rudd over the WA corruption scandal backfired yesterday when John Howard promoted to the frontbench a senator with shares in companies linked to disgraced lobbyist Brian Burke.

Spoiler:
Guest, I'm sorry but you need to register before you can view this text...

Posted by: Paula, March 20, 2007, 6:17am; Reply: 80

Labor's primary vote soars to 20-year high: poll

A new opinion poll out today shows the Federal Opposition's primary vote has risen to a 20-year high of 52 per cent.

The Newspoll, published in the Australian newspaper, says the Coalition's primary vote in comparison has fallen to 34 per cent - its lowest level in nine years.

The poll puts Labor ahead of the Government by 22 points on a two-party preferred basis, up eight points from the last poll two weeks ago.

Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd is the preferred prime minister with 49 per cent, compared to Prime Minister John Howard's 36 per cent.

Opposition treasury spokesman Wayne Swan has told ABC TV's Lateline he is not surprised.

"I think there is a strong mood for change in the community," he said.

"The vote isn't locked in but there's a strong mood for change - I think voters like what they see with Kevin Rudd and Labor.

"They like the positive alternatives that Kevin Rudd is putting forward."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1876292.htm

Let's hope the poll is accurate. We need a change.

Posted by: aquamonkey, March 22, 2007, 10:20am; Reply: 81

Quoted Text

FEDERAL Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd has urged New South Wales voters not to lodge protest votes against the Labor Government when they go to the polls on Saturday.

Addressing a major campaign event in western Sydney, Mr Rudd said voters faced a stark choice between a Labor Government who would deliver better services and a Coalition Opposition that cannot deliver services.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21426736-1702,00.html

Those considered scare tactics by any chance

Labor are now suddenly able to deliver better service, Major Dilemma has already admitted we won't see any untill 2010. What are the chances that in the leadup to the 2011 elections they'd still be just over the horizon??

Posted by: boomslanger, March 22, 2007, 11:40am; Reply: 82

It's very telling on just how bad Debnam is and how much on the nose (rightly so) with the electorate, when in a survey yesterday in the South Coast where I live, 60% or those surveyed said that Labor doesn't deserve another chance in the upcoming election but will still vote Labor.

Posted by: aquamonkey, March 22, 2007, 12:22pm; Reply: 83

I completely agree Debnam is not likable, if he was their wouldn't be the need for an election Dilemma could just be told to f#ck off! I'd rather put Debnam in, see how he does and if it's bad get rid of him next time. Iemma has already admitted if he gets back in he won't be doing a bloody thing (probably send the resume down to mac bank unless bobbo's handling recruitment these days).

Quoted Text

THE families of six people who died because of alleged systemic failures by the New South Wales Government have written an open letter to voters urging them to vote for the Opposition on Saturday.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21427137-1702,00.html

Posted by: x452, March 22, 2007, 12:49pm; Reply: 84

Quoted from aquamonkey

I'd rather put Debnam in, see how he does and if it's bad get rid of him next time

I believe that's how a slimy little character named John Winston Howard got elected, 11 years later he's still here and slimier than ever.

Sounds like you guys have a situation like the 2004 federal election. You have an underperforming Government who is out of touch and a real want for change in the electorate, but an opposition that is a complete shamozzle. In that election Howard had the silver bullet of the economy and low interest rates. As for Iemma, it appears his silver bullet is Debnam!

Voters always go for the devil they know when they don't like the other guy.

Posted by: boomslanger, March 22, 2007, 12:52pm; Reply: 85

Oh come on that's stupid. There are deaths under all governments. There have been deaths under Howard's government because of funding shortfalls and systematic failures so shouldn't Howard have been thrown out years ago?

...and will Debnam make it any better, of course not. The reason Labor have been in power for 12 years is because of the mess the previous Libs left, which included a run down health system that killed people. So will these same people blame Debnam for every person who dies in the health system under his watch, of course they won't.

Debnam will not make it better and because the looney Christian right is behind him, but even worse the reprehensible David Clarke, Debnam should not even be given a chance for even one year let alone one term, he's not work the risk at all.

Posted by: aquamonkey, March 22, 2007, 1:58pm; Reply: 86

But you were blaming current health issues on the Howard government a few weeks ago so any any "mess" made by the former state administration would have been due to blunders made at a federal level yes? Or are the federales only to blame if you don't personnally like them?

Transport, roads, power, law enforcement, all under state control, and all a problem as well

Posted by: cactus, March 22, 2007, 3:48pm; Reply: 87

Quoted from aquamonkey

Transport, roads, power, law enforcement, all under state control, and all a problem as well

These have been the issues in every state every year since federation.  States are always playing catch-up.

The real problem is housing development and the amount of pressure they put on governments to squeeze as many houses as possible into as little space as possible.  No provision is made for future growth of traffic, transport and other infrastructure demands.  Subsequently as the development heads further out, highways and community centres need to be built but there is no land available and reclaiming property is a very very expensive.

They say an idiot will do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result every time.  Every government, state and federal, have made the same mistakes over and over again.  They have allowed developers to dictate planning policy, and what we need is not more of the same but someone to say: STOP, THINK, PROCEED.

Unfortunately there is no one to do this and elections are increasingly becoming a celebrity vote.  Every government to date has not stood up for the people but have taken the easier short-term solutions to secure their next election.

Who would I vote for? A revolution!

Posted by: boomslanger, March 22, 2007, 4:08pm; Reply: 88

Quoted from aquamonkey

But you were blaming current health issues on the Howard government a few weeks ago so any any "mess" made by the former state administration would have been due to blunders made at a federal level yes? Or are the federales only to blame if you don't personnally like them?

Transport, roads, power, law enforcement, all under state control, and all a problem as well

And as cactus so rightly pointed out all these things have been stuffed up by all State governments since Federation. But national roads are Howard's domain as are some other national infrastructure programs and these have been drastically under funded from day dot of his government. Health and education are shared responsibilities, with health especially being 50/50, so 50% of the blame must go to the Feds. Law enforcement also has State and Federal components, especially in security and Howard has been very slack in that area with the States being more proactive and more pragmatic.

Looking at law and order in NSW, the latest figures show the crime rate is the lowest in 10 years and has been going down in the last 2 years. Plus the crime rate is directly linked to heavy drug shortages, and the Liberal will not fix that anymore than Labor will.

What it comes down to is that Debnam has promised the world with no way of fully paying for it. Iemma hasn't but won't bring in anything until 2010, but if you look at Debnam's program of waiting for public servants to die, retire or quit before he can get the money saved from them he won't be able to do anything for at least 10 years.

Posted by: aquamonkey, March 22, 2007, 5:31pm; Reply: 89

Quoted from cactus

These have been the issues in every state every year since federation. States are always playing catch-up.

In 1994 NSW had such a good electricity supply that some generators at power stations were not running. Now if everyone turns on their AC it's blackouts all round! Also New South Wales State Rail Authority, known today as FailCorp or That ******* pack of useless *****! if you're waiting on a train, had received 450 top of the line train carriages implementing a design that is still used today. In their 12 years Bobcat and Dilemma have introduced a whopping 115 suburban carriages that were such a dismal failure the final order was cancelled. Oh their are also (apparently) 8 new OSCAR cars operating on the southcoast although 122 should have begun service at the end of 2005. If Labor are reelected suburban passengers won't even see new AIR CONDITIONED (yes in 2007 1/3rd of our trains are non airconditioned) trains before the next election in 2011.

In sizzling news "The sweaty conditions on CityRail carriages contravene the Federal Government's guidelines for the transport of live animals - including battery hens." (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21423075-5005941,00.html)Wonder if KRudd will help his mates and have those laws changed down the track (if he's in a position to do so).

"Keep on training Sydney"

Quoted from Boomslanger

But national roads are Howard's domain as are some other national infrastructure programs and these have been drastically under funded from day dot of his government

National highways have joint jurisdiction. You get a pothole out the front of your house call canberra and see how that goes. Are you trying to blame the cross city tunnel complete f#ckup on Howard now???? Let's see how well Lane Cove goes..... after the election :o

www.rta.nsw.gov.au/ sound state like to me

Quoted Text

The people and Government of NSW expect the RTA to manage the roads and traffic system of NSW, in conjunction with state and local government agencies

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/whoweareandwhatwedo/index.html

Posted by: cactus, March 22, 2007, 5:56pm; Reply: 90

Every time I visit Sydney I use public transport and never had a problem or complaint except for some graffiti. My biggest angst was no public transport to some areas.

Perhaps your standards are too high or mine too low.

Posted by: aquamonkey, March 22, 2007, 6:14pm; Reply: 91

Quoted from cactus

Every time I visit Sydney I use public transport and never had a problem or complaint except for some graffiti. My biggest angst was no public transport to some areas.

Perhaps your standards are too high or mine too low.

Well going from to work and back every day my hopes are for a clean, airconditioned on time (that means not running more than 5 minutes late by railcorp standards) train that isn't 35+ years old. On the would be nice list is for the 45 minute trip not to take 55 minutes as is does in the "slower, more reliable [insert have a wank emoticon] timetable, and not to have some wannabe cop in a nazi like uniform "providing security", and by that I mean checking tickets

High taxes and increasing ticket fares do tend to breed high expectations, as a casual passenger your tickets are most likely subsidised by those of us going to work on the damn things and paying $$$$$$$. If you're a child, pensioner or disabled it's a certainty

Posted by: cactus, March 22, 2007, 6:51pm; Reply: 92

The frustrations you endure daily are not just on trains. Waiting, waiting, is everywhere: in the supermarket checkout, in line at the bank or Maccas, in traffic, on the phone. Impatientness is a state of mind and as such can be adjusted for ones benefit.

I think the underlying problem is population overload. The population is growing quicker than we can cope and we have been unable to adapt to the change. We should manage our attitude or manage the population, and perhaps a lot of these annoyances will disappear, or at least be more reasonable.

Posted by: boomslanger, March 22, 2007, 7:00pm; Reply: 93

But Debnam will not fix any of this. To even fix a fraction of what he has promised he will have to bring in higher taxes just as Greiner did. Here's just some of the stuff Greiner left Labor to prove that this is the fault of all parties.

Peter Debnam is now getting advice from Greiner. This is Greiner's record.

Quoted Text

Sacked thousand of workers providing public service in NSW that saw the worse service obligation delivery of an State in Australia.

Left more than $12 billion of debt and increased taxes by $10 billion a year.

Left NSW on a Moody�s ratings agency credit watch, threatening to withdraw the state�s AAA credit rating.

Six deficits in a row, cumulatively worth $5.5 billion.

11 schools were shut down in just his first year.

He sacked 2,500 teaching positions and 800 ancillary staff in his first year.

Electricity charges rose 9.8%, adding $48 to the average bill.

Public transport fares went up an average 12.5% in his first year.

Taxes on average rose in each year of his term.

He closed, downgraded, privatised or attempted to close 30 hospitals and the number of public hospital beds was cut by 7,500.

Debnam will just be a worse version of Greiner, but even worst still he will bring in the looney Christian right to power. At least Greiner was a moderate.

Posted by: tramp, March 22, 2007, 7:04pm; Reply: 94

This "looney" lobby group has a lot of clandestine power in the US and it is starting to gain momentum here in Australia. Very frightening stuff.

Posted by: cactus, March 22, 2007, 7:06pm; Reply: 95

Very frightening indeed. And even more frightening in Gympie in Queensland - This is not a place I'd like to live.

Posted by: tramp, March 22, 2007, 7:15pm; Reply: 96

And everyone has a gun.

It's like the American South except it's up here in Queensland. Maybe it's the humidity that does it.

Posted by: aquamonkey, March 22, 2007, 7:43pm; Reply: 97

Quoted from cactus

The frustrations you endure daily are not just on trains. Waiting, waiting, is everywhere: in the supermarket checkout, in line at the bank or Maccas, in traffic, on the phone. Impatientness is a state of mind and as such can be adjusted for ones benefit.

It's not even close to the same thing. You waiting in line at slack macs often and told their won't be another cheese burger for twenty minutes, ask the girl at the counter who says "howdya expect me ta know mate I don't run the place, call 131 500!"

Yes their are delays in many places, but in the public service there are delays and people whoo should be doing a job standing round scratching their arse. Start choppping them, their are enough indians flying in to replace the ones currently wearing the uniform, it's a two day training coarse and you don't need to know much engalish

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 8, 2007, 12:08pm; Reply: 98

Nice publicity stunt Kev

Quoted Text

VIETNAM veterans have been offended by Labor leader Kevin Rudd's request for a "fake" dawn service so he can commemorate Anzac Day live on Channel Seven's breakfast show from Long Tan in Vietnam.

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,22049,21520323-5001021,00.html

Posted by: blahNii, April 8, 2007, 3:33pm; Reply: 99

Quoted from aquamonkey

Nice publicity stunt Kev

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,22049,21520323-5001021,00.html

He only got the idea from USA media who want Beijing Olympic events to be timed for prime time night viewing in America . .so athletes can 'suck it up' and be ready to race at 5am to fit in with USA peak viewing. ::)

Posted by: boomslanger, April 8, 2007, 4:06pm; Reply: 100

Quoted from aquamonkey

Nice publicity stunt Kev

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,22049,21520323-5001021,00.html

The Tele as usual got it all wrong and its a load of bull. Why does the right wing media always have to invent things to belittle the left. It shows what is so wrong with the right. In fact the Vietnam Vets are pissed off at the Tele from what I'm reading.

Here is what really happened but don't expect the tele to apologise to Rudd.

Quoted Text

SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT

Sorry for this special extra newsletter - but I feel a need to set the record straight.
Perhaps like you, I woke up on Easter Sunday this morning to see a screaming headline that we're somehow trying to undermine the Anzac spirit, by staging our own "dawn service" in Vietnam for Kevin Rudd's benefit. I couldn't believe it. The story was totally from left field.
I thought you deserved an explanation.
As you know, I've long had a passion to tell wartime stories. I think it's crucial that younger generations get an understanding of earlier sacrifices. It's for that reason we went to Kokoda last year.
It's for that same reason that we started talking to Vietnam veterans about visiting Long Tan this year. We were briefed at our office by a group of men who fought. They wanted us to travel with them. Remember, these were blokes who suffered a backlash when they returned from war. It's frankly about time that the media gave proper attention to their commemorations.
Just like last year - we spoke to both Kevin Rudd and Joe Hockey about travelling with us. Joe wanted to go - but already had commitments in his electorate. So instead, we invited Bronwyn Bishop, who agreed.
Never once was it seen as some attempt to win ratings. Anyone who understands our industry would know there are only very limited ratings on a public holiday anyway. This was about doing something special.
Our producers then started speaking to everyone they needed to about making it happen. And of course timings were discussed. It soon became apparent that time differences meant we couldn't show the dawn service live. Instead, we were planning to shoot elements of that so that everyone could see it on the news that night. As for Sunrise, we were briefed on a different tribute that happens year round at Long Tan. It's not a dawn service at all - but rather a small ceremony where veterans can pay their own respects. We agreed to consider showing that.
Despite what the paper had to say - we received no political pressure to move things around. Kevin Rudd and Bronwyn Bishop had no special requests. They were there for the veterans. It's as simple as that.
We also hadn't confirmed that the trip was going ahead. Despite our best intentions, broadcasting from Vietnam is no easy task. There were always going to be some major obstacles to overcome. Truth is, I suspect we won't be able to do it this year anyway.
For that reason, we'd committed to broadcasting this year's dawn service from Elephant Rock on the Gold Coast. We plan to do that commercial free and with the full support of the RSL. We'd told the paper about that plan so really aren't sure why this morning's story was as big as it was.
Anyway, I hope that clears it up. You would've been right to have concerns.
Cheers,
Kochie

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 8, 2007, 4:47pm; Reply: 101

So 'Kochie' is now the official media spokesman for seven, or was this just covering him? No surprises on the response though

For the record similar requests were made to Sydney and Athens Olympic committes.

Posted by: boomslanger, April 8, 2007, 5:11pm; Reply: 102

Quoted from aquamonkey

So 'Kochie' is now the official media spokesman for seven, or was this just covering him? No surprises on the response though

For the record similar requests were made to Sydney and Athens Olympic committes.

No aquamonkey, Adam Boland and Sunrise have made official repudiations, Kochie is just repeating that in their Sunrise family emails. The Vietnam vets involved have also backed up Adam Boland.

Why are you so ready to believe a right wing Murdoch paper that is known for its right wing leanings and for deliberately twisting or misrepresenting the facts?

Posted by: boomslanger, April 8, 2007, 5:29pm; Reply: 103

Well here is a turn up. I just heard on the news that the Howard government has taken control of this year's Long Tan dawn service.

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 8, 2007, 5:52pm; Reply: 104

Quoted from boomslanger

Well here is a turn up. I just heard on the news that the Howard government has taken control of this year's Long Tan dawn service.

Which was in the original news story, nice to see you were paying attention. Though since it was reported on news maybe they're not......?

Posted by: boomslanger, April 9, 2007, 5:49am; Reply: 105

Today's Tele in a small article on page 2 has retracted it's previous massive headlines of the Rudd story. It was a beat up and worse on the Tele's part is that Kevin Rudd had absolutely nothing to do with at all, he and Bromwyn Bishop were asked to attend the tribute.

Of course I won't expect an apology from aquamonkey for stating this:

Quoted Text

Nice publicity stunt Kev

Posted by: Paula, April 9, 2007, 8:31am; Reply: 106

Quoted from boomslanger

... Of course I won't expect an apology from aquamonkey for stating this:

Nor should you. He posted that in good faith, just as you post what you see/read in the media.

Posted by: boomslanger, April 9, 2007, 9:19am; Reply: 107

Quoted from Paula

Nor should you. He posted that in good faith, just as you post what you see/read in the media.

But I have no hesitation in retracting anything I get wrong and will immediately post a link or quote of a media retraction. Also when I source media reports I always attempt to go to as many sources as I can before posting. I also go to the sites and sources of the target of the media attack. In this case I went to both Sunrise and the Labor Party website (where there was nothing).

This is doubly true for any Murdoch media releases attacking the opposition or in favour of Howard, they have a known history of being right biased and falsely reporting against one and for the other.

I also always attempt to apologise when someone points out I have posted an incorrect fact, but not without first trying to find a counter or opposite information.

Posted by: Paula, April 9, 2007, 9:36am; Reply: 108

If you post something in good faith, you don't need to apologise. It's up to the press to do that.

(This is said as a Labour voter of some years, just in case I am "accused" of being right-wing again.)

Posted by: boomslanger, April 9, 2007, 10:37am; Reply: 109

Fair enough Paula and you are right. But there is a lesson there for those who take what the mainstream media state as gospel, especially Murdoch media and the right wing shock jocks.

I was really having a go because aquamonkey not only quoted the Tele but prefaced it with an uncomplimentary dig at Kevin Rudd.

Posted by: x452, April 10, 2007, 9:29am; Reply: 110

Quoted from boomslanger

I was really having a go because aquamonkey not only quoted the Tele but prefaced it with an uncomplimentary dig at Kevin Rudd.

Courtesy ain't one of the strengths of our friends on the right.

Posted by: x452, April 11, 2007, 9:56am; Reply: 111

Lil Ruddy's been on the campaign trail this morning appearing on breakfast radio and on t.v. One agenda he is pushing is mandatory health checks for children before they start school.

The following I think sums up one of the key differences between Liberal and Labor. When questioned by the host that such a program would cost a lot of money, Rudd responded by saying it's about the future well-being of Australian children, not dollars and cents.

Whereas the Liberals would be saying this would cost x amount of dollars and would damage the economy and is not feasable.

Children to get health checks under ALP
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=28&ContentID=25721

Quoted Text

"Investing early in a young person's life, in their education, in their health opportunities is the best place to spend the taxpayers' dollar," Mr Rudd told reporters while announcing the plan in Sydney

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 13, 2007, 8:10am; Reply: 112

Anzac Day reports untrue: Rudd
http://search.smh.com.au/click.ac?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Frudd-admits-gaffe-over-tv-dawn-service-in-vietnam%2F2007%2F04%2F12%2F1175971265491.html&t=4&n=1&s=rudd*

turns into

Rudd admits gaffe over TV dawn service in Vietnam
http://search.smh.com.au/click.ac?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Frudd-admits-gaffe-over-tv-dawn-service-in-vietnam%2F2007%2F04%2F12%2F1175971265491.html&t=4&n=1&s=rudd*

Which leads to one of my favourite quotes "Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore."

* News reports are provided by the Sydney Morning Herald since the telegraph reports so many untruths

Posted by: boomslanger, April 13, 2007, 9:06am; Reply: 113

Did you bother to fully read that news report?

...and by the way Joe Hockey this morning fully backed Kevin Rudd.

Posted by: boomslanger, April 13, 2007, 9:37am; Reply: 114

Read this Australian piece in full. It it no way impugns Rudd as Jo Hockey pointed out (yet Abbott is still trying to do). It just boils down to Rudd not getting one email from a Veterans group making their reservations about what was being planned known. In the end when it was explained what was happening they had no problems with it as long as Adam Boland reflected on the war dead.

Posted by: x452, April 13, 2007, 9:37am; Reply: 115

Quoted from aquamonkey

Anzac Day reports untrue: Rudd
http://search.smh.com.au/click.ac?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Frudd-admits-gaffe-over-tv-dawn-service-in-vietnam%2F2007%2F04%2F12%2F1175971265491.html&t=4&n=1&s=rudd*

turns into

Rudd admits gaffe over TV dawn service in Vietnam
http://search.smh.com.au/click.ac?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Frudd-admits-gaffe-over-tv-dawn-service-in-vietnam%2F2007%2F04%2F12%2F1175971265491.html&t=4&n=1&s=rudd*

Is this the biggest rock you can find to throw at Lil Ruddy? ::)

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 13, 2007, 9:51am; Reply: 116

Quoted from x452

Is this the biggest rock you can find to throw at Lil Ruddy? ::)

Given he was quick on the spot claiming he had absolutely no information on the subject on Sunday, now there were travel arrangements in place but nothing concrete, there were emails which may not have been personally viewed (problem with emails is you can't put the computer through the shredder!), it's quite a nice rock. And if the situation were reversed and Johnie was in the spotlight a few people here would be screaming about it.

Posted by: x452, April 13, 2007, 10:06am; Reply: 117

Quoted from aquamonkey

Given he was quick on the spot claiming he had absolutely no information on the subject on Sunday, now there were travel arrangements in place but nothing concrete, there were emails which may not have been personally viewed (problem with emails is you can't put the computer through the shredder!), it's quite a nice rock. And if the situation were reversed and Johnie was in the spotlight a few people here would be screaming about it.

Johnny's faux-pas are so much bigger. I've had so much practice that I could probably take a fly out from 10 metres!

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 13, 2007, 11:00am; Reply: 118

Quoted from x452

Johnny's faux-pas are so much bigger. I've had so much practice that I could probably take a fly out from 10 metres!

Again I am not saying they are not, I am pointing out the issue involving Rudd, Rudd fiercly denying it and then Rudd turning around and saying he may have been going, but he's not sure and that they did recieve an email that seems to have been (conveniently) overlooked. And to me it's sounds odd at this point his defence being the amount of emails his office recieves. My office receives a great deal as well.

If John-John was in the same position people on this forum would be screaming murder and you know it. Can you smell the corruption or is it limited to who's corruption it happens to be?

Posted by: boomslanger, April 13, 2007, 11:32am; Reply: 119

John Howard and many of ministers have used the email excuse many times over the years.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill and clutching at straws. As Jo Hockey said this morning, it is no big deal and its time to move on, and that Kevin Rudd has done nothing untoward. It is purely a right wing media beat up. Notice that Howard is keeping well out of it and so far the only minister to have said anything is Abbott on Today this morning. Not even Costello who jumps in with both feet on anything Rudd related is silent but especially Downer who will denigrate any Labor minister but especially his old enemy, whether there are facts to back him up or not, has kept quiet.

Don't forget that Jo Hockey and then Bromwyn Bishop when Jo couldn't make it were also going along, so how come there is nothing about them in the media?

There is nothing to this as much as you keep trying to blow it up, whereas Howard's discretions (Children Overboard, AWB, Iraq etc.) have been monumental.

Posted by: x452, April 13, 2007, 12:54pm; Reply: 120

Quoted from aquamonkey

Again I am not saying they are not, I am pointing out the issue involving Rudd, Rudd fiercly denying it and then Rudd turning around and saying he may have been going, but he's not sure and that they did recieve an email that seems to have been (conveniently) overlooked. And to me it's sounds odd at this point his defence being the amount of emails his office recieves. My office receives a great deal as well.

My last post wasn't intended to sound like me accusing you of claiming Rudd's faux-pas are worse than Johnny's.

To be honest I'm not really concerned about this, even if Jo Hockey and Bronwyn Bishop were involved it's too "small potatoes".

Rudd must have learnt the old "blame a staff member" or "claim the email was over-looked due to large volumes received" from Howard's "dodgy defence strategies" book.

Quoted from aquamonkey

If John-John was in the same position people on this forum would be screaming murder and you know it. Can you smell the corruption or is it limited to who's corruption it happens to be?

Oh I can smell the corruption all right. This one's just too "small potatoes". Does anyone really care?

You may need use super-glue if you want this kinda sh*t to stick to Rudd :)

Posted by: Srekwah, April 18, 2007, 6:48pm; Reply: 121

Rudd's a grub.

Posted by: tramp, April 18, 2007, 6:52pm; Reply: 122

Is that it: �a grub�? Better a grub than Bush�s b****.

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 18, 2007, 7:29pm; Reply: 123

Quoted from tramp

Is that it: �a grub�? Better a grub than Bush�s b****.

Quoted Text

KEVIN Rudd vowed the US would remain Australia's most important ally as he headed to America on his first overseas visit as opposition leader.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21579752-1702,00.html

MEDIA WHORE! Any place theirs a TV camera theirs Rudd having sex with it

Posted by: tramp, April 18, 2007, 9:05pm; Reply: 124

Quoted Text

KEVIN Rudd vowed the US would remain Australia's most important ally as he headed to America on his first overseas visit as opposition leader

A strong relationship with the US is important, but Howard made it a partisan relationship with Bush, which made it comical and counter-productive.

Posted by: tramp, April 18, 2007, 9:11pm; Reply: 125

Quoted from aquamonkey

MEDIA WHORE!

An odd proclamation if you want to be taken seriously.

Name me a politician who isn�t.

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 19, 2007, 7:41am; Reply: 126

Well back up their sport, how many other politicians cohost an entire TV show? One that has no involvement in politics? Krudd just stepped aside from Sunrise due to his busy schedule (yeah it had nothing to do with anything else), but he has time to dance and cook with Kerrie Anne. maybe if he spent some more time in the office he'd get to all his emails!

Interesting choice of shows if he wants to be taken seriously

Posted by: boomslanger, April 19, 2007, 8:23am; Reply: 127

Quoted from aquamonkey

Well back up their sport, how many other politicians cohost an entire TV show? One that has no involvement in politics? Krudd just stepped aside from Sunrise due to his busy schedule (yeah it had nothing to do with anything else), but he has time to dance and cook with Kerrie Anne. maybe if he spent some more time in the office he'd get to all his emails!

Interesting choice of shows if he wants to be taken seriously

Here is the name denigration again. Never see in any of your posts a mangling of a coalition pollies name. Always a sign of a weak argument and the lowest base denominator of someone who cannot put forward a logical debate.

Then there is the second point, exaggeration. Kevin Rudd has never cohosted an entire TV show, please just name one instance where he has done this?

...and let me think, didn't Peter Costello dance on Kerrie-Anne, and haven't Coalition pollies appeared on cooking shows, my heaven's yes.

Howard makes an average of 10 media appearances a day, and most shamelessly uses the military and our troops for political gain every chance he gets. In comparison what Rudd and Hockey have been doing is tame.

Also the Coalition dominate all forms of media, especially print and radio, so any accusations of media whores fits many times more to them.

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 19, 2007, 8:53am; Reply: 128

Well the Rudd cheer squad is out as expected! He co-hosted 'MORNINGS WITH KERRI-ANNE' this week, he was not on their simply for an interview or one segment.

Posted by: boomslanger, April 19, 2007, 10:10am; Reply: 129

I didn't know he was a co-host for an entire show and thus got equal billing to Kerrie-Anne, if true I concede your point that Kevin has indeed co-hosted an entire non-political show, and good on him. Didn't Costello also do the same?

The rest of my points stand.

...and aren't you the cheer squad for Howard and come out as expected to defend him?

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 19, 2007, 2:44pm; Reply: 130

Quoted Text

Rudd makes the jump to Nine
Tuesday Apr 17 00:26 AEST
Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd's sun may have gone down on Seven but looks set to rise on rival Nine Network.

Mr Rudd will co-host Nine's Mornings with Kerri-Anne program on Wednesday - just two days after being forced to dump his weekly spot on Seven's Sunrise program, The Australian newspaper reports.

Nine said Mr Rudd would act as co-host, "spending the whole show with Kerri-Anne" where he will "review movies with Andrew Mercado, cook chocolate with famous chocolatier Max Brenner, and even be there for a conversation with champion swimmer Brooke Hanson and her fiance".

Mr Rudd quit his regular spot on Sunrise following sustained criticism over his role in the breakfast show's plan to broadcast a fake Anzac Day service.

He denied he pulled out of Sunrise because of the Anzac Day fiasco, instead attributing the move to the cold political realities of an election year.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=261407

As I've said before I have no fondness for any particular political party I do however believe the Liberals manage better, any time I doubt that I look at the administration we have going on in NSW!

Posted by: boomslanger, April 24, 2007, 8:13am; Reply: 131

This one really cracked me up.

Saw a sound bite this morning from last night's Australian Story piece on Alexander Downer (which I refused to watch) in they caught a behind doors piece of Alexander saying to a bunch of dignitaries that Kevin Rudd is the vainest man he has ever met, and he has been in politics for a long time and met some very vain people but Kevin takes the cake.

Two things come to mind.

One, Alexander if you want to see the vainest person ever in Australian politics just open your eyes in front of the mirror each morning.

Two, the blackest pot in the kitchen calling the cleanest kettle black.

Posted by: x452, April 24, 2007, 9:15am; Reply: 132

I was in two minds as well about watching and didn't end up watching it. Although it may have been funny, the "vain" comment is certainly comical, the same man than donned fishnet stockings calling Rudd a publicity whore. You couldn't find a bigger toff/dumba*s of a politician than Downer. Keating so fittingly described him as "the idiot son of the aristocracy".

He's an embarrassment to the Liberal Party and an embarrassment to intelligence.

I might try and catch the second part for a laugh.

Posted by: Paula, April 28, 2007, 5:06pm; Reply: 133

Rudd gets his way on uranium mines

The Labor party national conference has narrowly supported a motion by party leader Kevin Rudd to scrap the "no new uranium mines" policy.

Frontbencher Anthony Albanese's motion to maintain the ban on new uranium mines was supported by 190 conference delegates, and 205 backed Mr Rudd.

Mr Rudd's motion sparked the only heated debate of the conference so far.

New party president John Faulkner was among those who voted for Mr Albanese's motion to keep the ban, but shortly after announced that Mr Rudd's motion was carried.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200704/s1908940.htm

>:( Not happy, Jan! >:(

Posted by: aquamonkey, April 28, 2007, 6:23pm; Reply: 134

Midnight Oil's singer..... I mean shadow minister for the environment :B musn't be happy about that.

Posted by: boomslanger, April 28, 2007, 6:44pm; Reply: 135

He isn't, neither was the shadow environment minister and several others. The same as many in the coalition were upset at Howard's IR laws and still are. That's what party politics is all about.

Notice that Howard released his all go for an accelerated nuclear power roll out for Australia at the same time Labor announced their uranium policy. This could backfire badly on Howard trying to sell 25 nuclear power stations.

He is going to rush through laws making it illegal for any State to oppose the building of a nuclear station or the blocking of the transport of nuclear material.

Posted by: The Pragmatic One, April 28, 2007, 6:48pm; Reply: 136

Quoted from aquamonkey

Midnight Oil's singer..... I mean shadow minister for the environment :B musn't be happy about that.

I like Peter Garret but he is becoming a walking contradiction. He means well but I just cant take him seriously anymore. At what point does he assert his opinion and not that of his party. He should have joined the Greens or the Dems.

Posted by: tramp, April 28, 2007, 7:11pm; Reply: 137

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

He means well

I'd rather have that than some narcissistic low-life out to get everything they can for themselves. Unfortunately both main party�s have their fair share of these people, so it�s refreshing to get a visionary.

I know a lot of people have criticised him for apparently modifying his position on some environmental issues, but remember this, it�s easier to change something from within than without � being part of the Labour team, he has a better chance of being heard than shouting from the fringes.

Peter is our inside man!

Posted by: boomslanger, April 28, 2007, 7:18pm; Reply: 138

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

I like Peter Garret but he is becoming a walking contradiction. He means well but I just cant take him seriously anymore.

When is anybody from any of the major parties going to do that, it's what party politics are all about, and what he knew he was going to get when he joined Labor? He has alrea

Print Topic - Archive