There has been a lot attributed to racism in recent times.  From the posts here and elsewhere I don’t think most people really know the meaning or consequences of racism.

My understanding is that racism is not necessarily driven by hate but rather by ignorance - Racist believe they are superior to other cultures and are usually condescending or patronising rather than violent.

I am not saying that some racists are not violent, I’m just trying to distinguish between racism and bigotry – Bigots tend to hate everyone not like themselves, those who do not conform, and this may come across as racism.

Any opinions on this distinction.

Quoted from tramp

. . . . . .  From the posts here and elsewhere I don’t think most people really know the meaning or consequences of racism.

My understanding is that racism is not necessarily driven by hate but rather by ignorance  . . . . .

Racism is driven by both hate and ignorance but there are serious grounds for the problems we see around us today.

Political, cultural and religious differences cannot be overcome by most and tolerance can only go so far.
We have divides in the community that keep growing each day . .  rich/poor . . educated/illiterate . . housed/homeless . .  wage earners/unemployed . . suburban life/youth gangs  . . . and the list goes on.

Race is just one more divide among many in our community that come under the same umbrella as the above listed stresses we all face today.

Quoted from blahNii

Racism is driven by both hate and ignorance...

Agreed and the dictionary definitions back that up.

Quoted Text

rac·ism      /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.  
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.  
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.  

[Origin: 1865–70; < F racisme. See race2, -ism]

Quoted Text

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source rac·ism       (r&#257;'s&#301;z'&#601;m)  Pronunciation Key  
n.  
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Quoted Text

WordNet - Cite This Source racism

noun
1.  the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races  
2.  discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism  

Yes I agree there is "Race Hate" but my proposal is that racism is not necessarily associated to hate and violence.

I believe everyone is racist to some extent but we don’t go around bashing in their heads because of our beliefs – this is the attribute of a bigot.

A lot of Australians believe that African Nations or rather people of black-African heritage are not generally as good as Anglos is swimming but are better than us in athletics …this is racism, it is not hate or ignorance.  The results in Olympics consistently support this assumption.

Quoted from tramp

...A lot of Australians believe that African Nations or rather people of black-African heritage are not generally as good as Anglos is swimming but are better than us in athletics …this is racism, it is not hate or ignorance.  The results in Olympics consistently support this assumption.

Do you have evidence for this?  We'd love to see it if you do, or is this just your opinion?

I think we are agreed on the point, racism isn't necessarliy associated with hate or violence.

Quoted Text

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior...

Quoted from tramp

. . . . . .  A lot of Australians believe that African Nations or rather people of black-African heritage are not generally as good as Anglos is swimming but are better than us in athletics …this is racism, it is not hate or ignorance.  The results in Olympics consistently support this assumption.

Think about that statement again . . some races DO have superior physical attributes due to their height, altitude where they train (native to their country) some are big and tall (great for basketball) some are small and fast (running, gymnastics) others are long and lanky (marathons and track and field) . . this is NOT racism . . it is having a physical advantage in certain circumstances.

The RACISM enters the frey when a flag goes up a pole to dictate that one nation is better than another because of the result of a contest   . . . that is the disgrace!!! . . I love to see an athlete in peak condition run the race of his/her life and win . . but the colour of their skin and their geography should not be an issue  of superiority . . any flag bearers out there game to take up the debate ???    

I hate how people are like " everyone is the same on the inside".. then say.. "it is what is on the inside that counts."
But if we are all the same..

I want to know.. if we evolved from the apes and stuff.. how did we get all these different races?!?!?! Who was first?

Is calling people "asians" and stuff racist?
It is funny how white people are more accused of being racist than other races though.

Quoted from dara

I hate how people are like " everyone is the same on the inside".. then say.. "it is what is on the inside that counts."
But if we are all the same..

I want to know.. if we evolved from the apes and stuff.. how did we get all these different races?!?!?! Who was first?

Is calling people "asians" and stuff racist?
It is funny how white people are more accused of being racist than other races though.

We did not come from apes . . evolution cannot explain the advanced thought patterns, imagination beyond the basic need to breed and survive.
Why we use only a small percentage of our brain capacity flies in the face of slow 'evolution' as that theory has advancement happening over millenia in small (non perceivable) speed.  We are far too advanced and creative to believe we came from a swamp in a fish like form that morphed into apes . .and here we are . . why did apes stop moving forward at that same speed we did?
Races and where they came from are explained in the Bible account of a creator building men though.

Quoted from dara

...
It is funny how white people are more accused of being racist than other races though.

Good point; I don't think racism is exclusive to any one colour and I know plenty of people who aren't 'white' who are racist.

Quoted from Paula

Good point; I don't think racism is exclusive to any one colour and I know plenty of people who aren't 'white' who are racist.

When a 'white man' thinks a coloured person is inferior . . he is 'racist'.

When a coloured person hates a white man he is just 'ignorant' .  

I know which word causes the most sparks of hate.

Quoted from blahNii

When a 'white man' thinks a coloured person is inferior . . he is 'racist'.
When a coloured person hates a white man he is just 'ignorant' I know which word causes the most sparks of hate.  

Good point.  IMO anyone who thinks someone of a different colour is inferior is racist, no matter if they are white, black, green or any other colour.

My husband just pointed out that it's often about scapegoats as much as racism.  He cited Adolf Hitler and the Jews.  He said while it was racism, it was also Hitler looking for a scapegoat that played a major part in the holocaust.

Thoughts?

I believe Hitler was just a mean and nasty person who happened to live out his fantasies through the hatred that was already there among the Europeans.  Let’s not forget that nearly all countries gladly turned over the Jews to Hitler’s armies.

This widespread hatred was jealously more than racism - Most Jews of the time were very successful in business or professional occupations.

But it wasn’t just Jews; Hitler also hated the diseased, disabled and other dependant minorities.

So what happened in Germany was not strictly racism but rather opportunistic jealousy and intolerance.

I knew a german lady years ago, who managed to survive Hitler's Germany. She was not a Jew. Her husband was killed in the war and she married another soldier, already having a son and daughter to her first husband. They were starving in Germany, so much so that they kept rabbits for eating, in their basement. The little boy was so hungry that she once caught him eating the stale bread for the rabbits. Her Mother needed medical care and medications, she was elderly. Hitler forbade any medical assistance being given to people such as she and her family had to smuggle food and medications to her.

I was raised in a town that had an Aboriginal Mission. There was a lot of racism from the indigenous towards the white population of the town. I was frankly terrified of the aborigines especially on 'pay day' because they would drink in the main street and abuse all and sundry when we walked by. They used to call it 'reverse racism' when the aborigines abused us... don't ask me why it was 'reversed' because it was still racism! I went to school with some great aborigines who became my friends.

In my family we have a Chinese woman in her 20's. She intensely dislikes black people (from any country) overweight people, people with tatoos, people with funky coloured hair, almost anyone and anything she thinks is out of the ordinary. A more bigotted and racist person I have never met.

Any one can be a racist, it is not an exclusive all white club.

Yeah I have an aboriginal friend, she is nice. But I think it's annoying how we can't treat races differently and we must be politically correct,  yet aboriginals and other races get special benefits eg free camps, money each month (my friend gets it, shes like 1/24th aboriginal. Just citing them as an example.

And blahnii some people believe in creationism some in evolution. you are saying that god made everyone thats what you believe?
fair enough.
I dont though.

No argument there pebble, it's just that I feel a lot of other emotions get lumped with racism.  The problem I see here is that bigotry and the undesirable aspects of racism can not be address adequately if it is not correctly identified.

Hatred, racism and jealousy are different emotions emerging from different triggers and demand differing responses.

The people who object to Aborigines receiving extra benefits, as a disadvantage minority, is probably due to jealousy and not necessarily racism.

Dara, I think most people believe that everyone should be treated the same, but I wonder how the participation of women in the workforce may be different today if it was not for proactive discrimination.

Quoted from tramp

The people who object to Aborigines receiving extra benefits, as a disadvantage minority, is probably due to jealousy and not necessarily racism.

Why are they disadvantaged? Giving them extra benefits discriminates against every other minority that may not have as good opportunity as  everyone else. The greatest thing against them are themselves. In my home of Adelaide there is a gang of 49 Aboriginals that is causing havoc all across town. A man lost his life the other week by one that is out on bail.

Why is there so much violence that surrounds them.

A reporter asked Anthony Mundines father as to why he thought he was so disliked. He replied that it was because he was black. That never occurred to me because I was to hung up on the fact that Anthony Mundine may well be the biggest wanker in the southern hemisphere. Its less about the colour of our skin and more about how thin it is. Dont think they arent racist either. Some of the crap I have seen from them suggests it is the other way round.
The sooner people stop seeing in colours and just people the quicker we can move forward. Giving them extra benefits just reafirms that everybody is different and that is the problem.

When I was a youth and looking for work I couldnt get this particular apprenticeship   because it was for aboriginals and torres strait islanders only. Every week the same job sat there while I had to take a job at a salvage/recycling yard. Isnt that racist. Please somebody clear this up for me.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

... When I was a youth and looking for work I couldnt get this particular apprenticeship   because it was for aboriginals and torres strait islanders only. Every week the same job sat there while I had to take a job at a salvage/recycling yard. Isnt that racist. Please somebody clear this up for me.

Yes, that's discrimination on the grounds of race.

The thing is they are not all disadvantaged. You shouldn't judge that on race. My friend buys ipods and a laptop and stuff with the money she gets.
If everyone is meant to be equal then everyone should be treated equally! I agree with what the pragmatic one said.

I think everybody that fits into a certain criteria should receive the same same benefits, no matter what race or colour of their skin.  Sadly this is not the case in many circumstances, their are many "white" battlers out there that are disadvantaged because of the colour of their skin.

Racism has many forms...............

That is really true LB.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Why are they disadvantaged?

Let me ask you one question:  You go for an interview for a job, you are given the choice to go as an Aborigine or as an Anglo ...what would you choose?

You may not agree with the so called "extra" welfare benefits to Aborigines but the assistance is not based on race but perceived disadvantage.

Did you know that farmers are given "extra" welfare benefits, not available to us, because of their perceived disadvantage despite many having millions in assets even after loans are paid out - is this reverse racism?

If you are upset at the farmers and Aborigines receiving "extra" handouts then you are not racist, but if you are only upset at the Aborigines getting extra handouts then perhaps there is racism in that.

Quoted from dara

If everyone is meant to be equal then everyone should be treated equally!

I agree with the pragmatic one as well, I think Anthony’s mouth is bigger than his brain, but geeze he was a good footballer.

We are not born to be equal and we are not meant to be equal – we are all very different.  We can be different: by choice, environment, or by birth.

How we treat the differences in others defines who we are, not who they are.

Quoted from tramp

Let me ask you one question:  You go for an interview for a job, you are given the choice to go as an Aborigine or as an Anglo ...what would you choose?

Right back at you, who do you think they would choose.  Me the whitey?

Look people hire everyone from every denomination. Ask yourself as to why people think twice before giving them a go. Everyday I see people from India working as doctors I see Asians doing numerous jobs. Its because they are willing to get off their backsides get out there and do something with themselves. They give you no other choice but to hire them based on a good work ethic.

As to part two of youre question.
all my family are from the country and to be honest I do not agree with them getting handouts. If I lost my job would they whip out Lee Kernaghan and raise money for me so I could meet my home repayments. The answer is no.
Its a tough line to take but its the right one if we really want equality for all. One set of rules that are colour blind I say.

The answer is yes, most employers will choose the Anglo over the Aborigine.

I’m all with you here: The people who genuinely persist will eventually get some employment and if they’re good they’ll advance.

There is a perception however, among many, that Aborigines more than any other group, don’t deserve “extra” handouts, but why?  Is it racism or jealousy?

I believe handouts to Aborigines is mostly jealousy, because most Australians just don’t know who or how much welfare other groups and individuals get.  If they knew they’d be just as upset – but there is no one out there with a political agenda continually whipping up hatred towards the Farmers and others.

I know where you’re coming from with the concert thingy.  Why there is this discrepancy in symphony among differing groups could be the subject under another thread – I’m sure there would be plenty of interest.

Honestly I think they lack genuine leadership and role models in their own community. People are to afraid to criticise them because they worry they might be branded some kind of white supremacist.It is counter productive and just misses the point. There has to be a limit on what we can do. At some stage the onus must be on them to carry their end of the log. They cant live in the injustices of the past forever. If the Irish or the Jews did this could you imagine what they would be like. The quicker they get it out of their head that its not about them being black and about all of us being Australians the better off we all will be.

It's called respect or lack of it - money can't buy respect, buy it can buy food and pay the rent.

Quoted from tramp

It's called respect or lack of it -

how do you mean? We respect them or vice a versa

Many in the Aboriginal community make up the rules as they go along.
They claim 'historical customs' . . all a lot of hoowey. .  

Last year a far north community came to a grinding halt because a respected elder died and welfare workers were shocked to hear the locals say they were going to have 3 months off for a 'traditional mourning period'.  

What tradition??? . . 200 years ago they would have given the deceased a send off and got back to work and feeding themselves within a day or two . . or starve to death!!! . . since when did 3 months need to be had so they can laze around under the guise of 'mourning'. ??  

The funniest part is that when watching SBS there are references to shows that contain the images of deceased Aborigines advising that their 'brothers' can't look because of tradition.  If that is true . .why a mourning period of 3 months when you cannot even commiserate with family and say the dead persons name!!

The South Australian saga of the Hindmarsh Island Bridge where old men were caught out in a blatant lie about the area being sacred when it was not.  Millions of $$ wasted (into white lawyers pockets) and the drunk old blokes laughed their heads off at the foolishness of the trouble they had caused.

Quoted from blahNii

The South Australian saga of the Hindmarsh Island Bridge where old men were caught out in a blatant lie about the area being sacred when it was not.  Millions of $$ wasted (into white lawyers pockets) and the drunk old blokes laughed their heads off at the foolishness of the trouble they had caused.

I thought it was secret womens business. I thought the bridge couldnt go ahead because it looked like a womans reproductive organs or something like that. The mind boggles.

Not long ago my daughter drove to a festival held near Toowoomba. She left after her work at the markets on a Saturday driving straight down from the sunny coast. The trip should of taken 3-4 hours. It took closer to 6 because she got lost in a strange place in the dark. She went down a couple of dirt tracks but turned around feeling she was taking the wrong one. When she eventually arrived and her friends greeted her she told them of her adventure getting there. They asked which roads she had taken and when she told them they said just as well she didn't have a male in the car with her (she was alone) as one of the tracks she took was sacred to the aboriginals and only women could go down it (Secret Women's Business)! I wonder if a male did accidentally go down one of those roads would he be cursed? Would the aboriginals know? Anyhoo... I thought the Hindmarsh Bridge debacle was to do with 'secret women's business' also!

Just to add. I admire greatly people like Stan Grant, Ernie Dingo (much beloved), Troy Cassar Daley, and many many more too numerous to remember or name, who are of Aboriginal Heritage who have become such prominent and contributing citizens of and for, Australia. I went to school with several outstanding indigenous people who made great careers for themselves and whose names became well known throughout Australia. They did not see their heritage as a stumbling block but an opportunity. So many indigenous people feel 'entitled' and sit on the haunches waiting for the Government to give them their due.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

I thought it was secret womens business. I thought the bridge couldnt go ahead because it looked like a womans reproductive organs or something like that. The mind boggles.

That was the funny part . .  the mouth of the Murray has been changing forever and there was no evidence at all the the 'Secret Womens Business'  ever existed.
How could such a supposedly simple people (without aircraft) have known what the river looked like ???  

It matters not now anyway . . the men who concocted the story hiccuped off into the sunset looking for the next Jack Daniels fix . . and the local women still are embarrased by the mess today.      
The poor(er) taxpayers of SA were not too impressed either.  

Yes, there are many Australians who expect handouts from the community via the governments, and among these are many millions of Anglos – bludging on society is not exclusively ethnic based.  I could give you some horrific Anglo stories of how “carers” are rorting the system while their charges are left unattended and living in 3rd World conditions.  Should I deduct than from this that the majority of Anglos are heartless bludgers.

I could easily, and justifiably, say that many Anglo people "feel 'entitled' and sit on the haunches waiting for the Government to give them their due", but this proves nothing except that when it comes to exploiting the generosity of the Australian community, everyone’s into it.

Oh, and I also admire greatly people like Kay McGrath, Claudia Carven (much beloved), Slim Dusty, and many many more too numerous to remember or name, who are of Anglo heritage - But what does this mean, I’m perplexed.

Quoted from blahNii

there was no evidence at all the the 'Secret Womens Business'  ever existed.

The poor(er) taxpayers of SA were not too impressed either.  

I suspect there was some skulduggery here on part of the anti-development lobby.

Quoted from tramp

. . . .  there was some skull-duggery here  . . . .  

If only there had been some skulls dug!!    . . then their 'heritage' claim would have been valid.  

Finally, someone with wit ...very clever.

Quoted from SuziH

I admire greatly people like Stan Grant, Ernie Dingo (much beloved), Troy Cassar Daley, and many many more too numerous to remember or name, who are of Aboriginal Heritage who have become such prominent and contributing citizens of and for, Australia. I went to school with several outstanding indigenous people who made great careers for themselves and whose names became well known throughout Australia. They did not see their heritage as a stumbling block but an opportunity. So many indigenous people feel 'entitled' and sit on the haunches waiting for the Government to give them their due.

What I have highlighted in bold print answers your question "But what does this mean, I'm perplexed."
That is the point I was making, tramp. They didn't just sit and wait for good fortune to land in their laps they chose to use their heritage and make a name for themselves in their chosen fields, excelling in that field 99% of the time. You are just being obnoxious if you don't get what I meant!

Many Anglos don't wait and sit for good fortune and many have become prominent, so what's your point?

Does it make it more specials if Aboriginals do it?