Dont cry when you need someone to stand up for you one day when you and your weak minded friends cant stand up for yourselves. ... The cold hard facts are that without good old american boys going out and dying for you whining gits
Amsterdam, you are welcome to debate here to your heart's content, but do not insult anyone with these sorts of comments. Anything further will be deleted. Thanks!
Saying anyone who does not support the war is anti-American or pro-terrorist is a dumb argument. We have reiterated many many times we are not against the American people or the country, only against the foreign policies of the Government.
That line of rhetoric is a dumb argument because it is based on a false premise.
Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One
Are you in a university or some form of schooling? Because you sound like me when I used to be full of ........
So you're enlightened now
Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One
May I suggest a trip to the red zone in Baghdad, so you can explore the town and maybe catch a taxi to market. Then you could go and stand on the rooftop of an empty warehouse that used to house the mustard gas,nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX just before bloody friday in a town called Halabja. Finally you could finish with a tour of one of saddams torture chambers and marvel at how barbaric it is compared to club med Guantanamo. I havent forgotten things like this and thats why I could care less about your endless tirade of verbal ennemas you call posts.
All valid reasons why something had to be done about Saddam, not necessarily militarily. America's "bombs for oil war" wasn't the answer.
Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One
I support the war for different reasons than what you think! I am not a warmonger and with my hand on my heart tell you I want to see Iraq thrive and be peaceful.
I am so sick of hearing this from the right. You couldn't care less about the people of Iraq, you never did. You supported America for your own ideological and racist reasons and only now after so much media attention and the reality that America has lost this war are you call coming out pretending to care about the poor innocent citizens of Iraq. Guess what, we see through it. If you cared about the people you would not be supporting the war and you would be calling for an asap withdrawal of American troops, and yes they should drop the barrels of oil and leave.
I am so sick of hearing this from the right. You couldn't care less about the people of Iraq, you never did. You supported America for your own ideological and racist reasons and only now after so much media attention and the reality that America has lost this war are you call coming out pretending to care about the poor innocent citizens of Iraq. Guess what, we see through it. If you cared about the people you would not be supporting the war and you would be calling for an asap withdrawal of American troops, and yes they should drop the barrels of oil and leave.
Whatever.
This is where I would like fully express how I feel about you but it would only be deleted so I wont bother. You think you know my opinion but you dont.
You are branding me a racist but I dont care. I know that people like you hide in forums like these. Obviously the internet gives you muscles where you can act real tough, but you dont fool anyone. I know your type,and how quickly they hide in the really real world where you would be reduced to only a shivering whisper.
I will give boomslanger one thing at least he provides well thought, intelligent debate. So in other words it is the complete opposite of your garbage.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” ~ Winston Churchill
Saying anyone who does not support the war is anti-American or pro-terrorist is a dumb argument. We have reiterated many many times we are not against the American people or the country, only against the foreign policies of the Government.
That line of rhetoric is a dumb argument because it is based on a false premise.
And the above false premise is a political tool used to confuse the populace and demonise legitimate opposition. This was vigorously applied by Deputy Dog, Howard, during the invasion of Iraq.
Howard has even used the same method on refugees: because you want due legal process for refugees then you must want unrestricted immigration.
The "If you're not for us then you must be against us" is a sure sign they know they are on shaky ground and don't even believe their own rhetoric.
This is where I would like fully express how I feel about you but it would only be deleted so I wont bother. You think you know my opinion but you dont.
You are branding me a racist but I dont care. I know that people like you hide in forums like these. Obviously the internet gives you muscles where you can act real tough, but you dont fool anyone. I know your type,and how quickly they hide in the really real world where you would be reduced to only a shivering whisper.
I will give boomslanger one thing at least he provides well thought, intelligent debate. So in other words it is the complete opposite of your garbage.
Truth hurts does it?
Pull your head out of whatever right-wing newspaper you read, stop watching FOX news because you spew the Bushian/Howardian crap in bucket loads and I got sick of it.
And the above false premise is a political tool used to confuse the populace and demonise legitimate opposition. This was vigorously applied by Deputy Dog, Howard, during the invasion of Iraq.
Howard has even used the same method on refugees: because you want due legal process for refugees then you must want unrestricted immigration.
The "If you're not for us then you must be against us" is a sure sign they know they are on shaky ground and don't even believe their own rhetoric.
Exactly. And there are gullible people out there (and in here) that buy it. Very sad.
Over 3000 allied troops killed, 10's of thousands of innocent civilians killed, just what does it take for these people to condemn the war and admit it was a grave mistake?
Is it they can't admit they were wrong? Or is it they believe that the deposing of Saddam was worth it no matter the human cost?
Even Republicans are admitting it was a mistake including Condaleeza Rice, yet these people are still sticking to their guns. Why?
This is where I would like fully express how I feel about you but it would only be deleted so I wont bother.
One more thing, I don't hate you, no matter what you think of me. I don't know you, you may be a decent person, you may not be racist, much like many that share your opinion. But your opinion says something about you, and I strongly oppose your opinion on this issue. You support Governments that have been responsible for the mass murder of 10's of thousands of innocent civilians for no justifiable cause (in fact the cause turns out to be dispicable), and still you cannot offer a meaningful explanation except that Saddam had to be removed when you know these same Governments were complicit in Saddam's brutal reign for a very long time. This indicates to us that you do not value the lives of all those killed. And as far as I'm concerned, by supporting the war there's blood on your hands and that is inexcusable.
Initially I tried very hard to see the positives of the war and of removing Saddam, see past the disgusting reasons why America were really there, but the reality became more and more apparent. I realised it would not be fair to the Iraqi people to believe whatever happens to them it is in their best interests.
This could have gone in the "What now for Iraq" thread as well. Here in yet another report is what is wrong with America in Iraq and why they should pull out as soon as possible to stop the continuous rorting of the Iraqi people. Not only that, US firms who are robbing Iraq and the US tax payers blind should not only be made to pay back all the money they have stolen, but pay Iraq for decades to come in restitution.
That is a disgrace whatever way you look at it and indefensible.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
The US House of Representatives has ignored the promise of a veto by President George W Bush and approved a war funding bill that includes a timetable for pulling US troops out of Iraq.
Lawmakers paid little heed to visiting top army general in Iraq, David Petraeus, who during a closed-door session earlier in the day championed the troop "surge" strategy and appealed for time so it could show results.
The 218-208 vote by the Democratic-majority House links release of $US124 billion in military spending for Iraq and Afghanistan to a schedule for the pullout of American troops, beginning as early as October.
The bill next faces a vote in Senate, where it is expected to pass, before heading to Bush who has repeatedly vowed to block the bill and blasted the attempt as a sure recipe for defeat.
Democrats, who have argued that they are acting on the will of the nation, were boosted by the release of a poll that showed a majority of Americans side with them on the issue and believe victory in Iraq is no longer possible.
"If the president vetoes this legislation he will not only be vetoing full funding for our troops, but ignoring, in my opinion, the will of the American people," said House Democratic majority leader Steny Hoyer.
"Our belief that we must hold the Iraqis accountable for achieving real progress and establish a timetable for a responsible deployment of American forces was also reinforced."
Plus General Petraeus has already in a short time asked for and gotten two extensions for the surge timetable, and two requests for increased troop numbers, and has just asked for another 15,000. That would nearly double the amount George Bush originally stated was needed for the surge, which makes a lie out of the fact that some are saying the surge is making progress.
In fact Iraqi civilian deaths have increased and now stand at nearly 90 per day and many of them are by US and Iraqi troops undertaking the surge. The British have just had their worst casualty and injury count since being Iraq, in fact they are coming under so much increased violence that they now refuse to allow Prince Harry to go into areas where the frontline British troops are.
The US is undertaking a tactic they tried and which failed in Vietnam, that is building massive gated communities. Like Israel they are building in Baghdad large areas surrounded by big walls, one such wall is already 5km long. This is purely for a propaganda exercise in which Bush can bring in the right wing media to one of these gated communities that is surrounded by security and show a supposedly peaceful Baghdad going about its normal business, all light and roses. This is why Bush will veto the bill calling for the withdrawal of US troops so he can put into place this charade they are setting up and claim they are winning in Iraq.
All the same rhetoric is coming out, the conflicting messages and the surprise visits that report "progress is being made". Only this morning the standard "Things are going to get worse before they get better", came from senior military commander in Iraq. They have been rolling out that line from the moment everything started going tits up but the problem is things keep getting worse but they never get better.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
bush is acting like a dictator? Uh never before in the US history has the opposition led a move to betray the men serving out in the area of operations. Why is a veto of that Dictator like? Dictators would have killed all the members that suggested such a thing!
As for him wanting to declare the war being won by hiding behind some walls!
I dont think anyone in his right mind would agree that that was "his" plan except maybe you boomslanger....
oh and as for your facts! they are incorrect! there are actually less civilians being killed everyday since the so called surge began. But hey I dont expect you to believe that either. And to me it is quite irrelevant. You seem to advocate a defeat for the USA and australia to boot. Maybe sitting behind a computer on a ship miles away from any actual shooting, along with 3 hot meals a day dulled your sense of involvement, but that many diggers would also feel let down and betrayed is not lost on me.
Remember that jihadis consider iraq and afganistan BOTH to be their AO and we are in them. So to pull out of one or the other would grant them a victory we cannot afford to hand them. Even if there are many both in civilian life and the media who want to give it to them
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