Quoted from boomslanger

The Iraq Survey Group (ISG), made up of some of the worlds best military and political minds, with the world's best experts on the Middle East came up with a full solution, a political and diplomatic one (which should have been the recourse in March 20 2003 when the UN asked for 6 more months for a diplomatic solution, which Bush ignored).

It was probably all too much for him to try to understand without diagrams drawn with crayons

They do like to make the rules up as they go along. For once I would like to see the U.S. actually take advice from others instead of being so pigheaded and only thinking of themselves. They love to make a big show of being thoughtful and caring of the world when all they care about is their own pockets - Kyoto Protocol anyone?

Quoted from vecordious

They love to make a big show of being thoughtful and caring of the world when all they care about is their own pockets - Kyoto Protocol anyone?

If Bush signed up to the Kyoto Protocol do you think Johnny would say "Me Too"  

Quoted from x452

If Bush signed up to the Kyoto Protocol do you think Johnny would say "Me Too"  

Well isn't that a coincidence, as that is exactly what Bush is planning to do and poor Johnny is going to be left out in the cold. Not only is Bush (and future Republican and Democratic presidential candidates) going to sign up they have promised to exceed Kyoto by a large margin by the middle of this century.

Quoted Text

In some ways, the Australian situation is similar to Alaska’s – our exposure to climate change is large, and our economy’s dependence on fossil fuels equally so, though with governmental largesse in the form of periodic tax cuts rather than direct handouts. In others, it’s very different – as a nation, our key energy resource is not only sourced here, it’s also our biggest export commodity. The arguments are economic rather than strategic. Then again, as made clear in the Stern report, business as usual could be a recipe for economic disaster.

Mr Howard’s best of both worlds response to the problem is clean coal technology, which he discussed with Chinese delegates at the ASEAN summit yesterday. But the test of whether a government truly believes its proposed strategy will be climatically effective is its willingness to consider binding emissions reductions. So far, Mr Howard has been unwilling to do this. But given that the US rejection of Kyoto was Australia’s primary reason for doing the same, if Bush changes tune, he’ll have little choice.

What was the big deal in signing the Kyoto Protocol anyway? I know the U.S. wouldn't sign it because that would mean they couldn't produce as many guns as they do   But what did Australia have to lose? Or was Howard just doing some serious brown-nosing?

Why, why, WHY does everything we do hinge on the Americans?

If I remember correctly we were operating as an independant nation before this suckhole of a PM came into power.

He will be remembered as a blight on this great nation.

Taken from CNN:

White House: Can't rule out attack on Iran

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/14/iran.us/index.html

Quoted Text

The sharp questioning about U.S. plans for Iran followed Bush's address to the nation Wednesday night announcing his strategy for Iraq, in which he vowed the United States "will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq."

Enemies in Iraq? They wouldn't be enemies if the U.S. hadn't invaded. I'm sure that if the U.S. decided to invade Australia, we would be their enemies. Needless to say, what's happening with Afghanistan these days??? Why all the focus on Iraq when they clearly had nothing to do with 9/11 (which seems to be the basis of terror talks - "Lets not forget 9/11"..."9/11 taught us blah blah blah"). Seems like 9/11 is being used as an excuse these days by the U.S. to do whatever the hell they want.

Meanwhile, Osama and his band of merry men are living it up....

I feel sorry for the American people:


Bush wants health squeezed for Iraq cash

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Wor.....6/1170524058195.html

Quoted Text

Some of Bush's proposed savings would come in politically sensitive health programs. Bush would squeeze $US66 billion ($A85.4 billion) over five years in savings from Medicare and $US12 billion ($A15.5 billion) from the Medicaid health program for the poor.

Quoted from vecordious

I feel sorry for the American people:

Bush wants health squeezed for Iraq cash

Quoted Text

Some of Bush's proposed savings would come in politically sensitive health programs. Bush would squeeze $US66 billion ($A85.4 billion) over five years in savings from Medicare and $US12 billion ($A15.5 billion) from the Medicaid health program for the poor.

And don't think for a moment Howard wouldn't do the same if he had to. Howard supporters, I hope you don't have an ill friend or family member in the future, by the time Johnny's finished pillaging the public health system it'll be at a third world standard, which means if you get sick bad, you die.

Health is the State's fault, as is education, as are high house prices, as are high petrol prices, as is inflation, as are interest rates when they go up but not when they go down, as is unemployment when it goes up but not when it goes down, as is the degradation of the environment, as is the shocking state of water, as is pollution, as is anything that is wrong with Australia but not in anything that is right with Australia.

Damn those State Premiers for pressuring Howard into joining the Iraq war, damn them!

As much as I believe the invasion of Iraq was wrong in the first place on many grounds, the US should have listened to this Aussie and we would be seeing a very different Iraq right now.

Brilliant article about a brilliant Australian soldier:

http://www.southsearepublic.org/story/2007/2/6/121855/4213

Quoted from boomslanger

As much as I believe the invasion of Iraq was wrong in the first place on many grounds, the US should have listened to this Aussie and we would be seeing a very different Iraq right now.

Brilliant article about a brilliant Australian soldier:

http://www.southsearepublic.org/story/2007/2/6/121855/4213

Getting rid of any despotic ruler always causes trouble.
They build convoluted nests of corruption that wreck basic social order in their countries so they can hold on to power.  Removing that kind of leader is never easy because they have many 'hangers-on' who profit from the corruption . . they don't want that gravy train to stop.  

Iraq is a prime example . . as will be Robert Mugabe and others.

True. And there's a HUGE lesson to be learnt (which should have been learnt a long time ago) but we (our Governments) don't seem to be getting it: stop supporting and dealing with despots to line our own pockets!

I can understand a third world country doing some dodgy dealings (just not arms) to help build their own economies to lift themselves out of poverty (it's a shame their leaders are never good people), but what excuse do we have?

Yes X452. The fact is that apart from Japan (and there were other influences in play there) not a single forced democracy in the world has ever worked.

Just about every democracy which is not established from the outset, is formed from the working/middle classes. What inevitably happens is that when a country becomes more economically viable and the working classes begin to earn more than they need just for sheer survival, the first thing they do is spend the extra on their children to give them a better life. This spending overwhelmingly takes the form of better education.

Better educated people by the time they reach tertiary level want a better system to live under and agitate for government reform, which eventually leads to democracy. It's more complicated than that but its the gist.

Indonesia is an example of this working where eventually people power mostly through street protest of university students got them on the path of democracy.

Autocrats know the danger of this (as do some democratic leaders, especially right wing ones) which is why they always keep their population in poverty so they can only put their resources into survival and the reason they only have education for the elite, which is what some right wing democratic leaders also believe in, higher education is only the domain of the elite.

Tiananmen Square 1989 was an example of an autocratic rule realising the danger of student protests being the embryo of democratic rule, which is why they crushed it so severely.

Iran is inevitably moving towards democracy because outside influences are forcing it to and educating its population to a better way of living, along with a growing affluent middle class and higher educated population. In time and without an invasion Iran will become democratic on its own, as will most of the other Arab nations. The same would have happened for Iraq but two things destroyed that. One was the harshest sanctions in the history of the planet that threw the growing affluent middle class (the most affluent and progressive in the region) back into abject poverty, which Saddam fully exploited for his own gain. And second was of course the invasion, which even Israel has recently admitted the best they can now hope for is a less radical Islamic regime that is not tied to Iran.

The Iraq invasion had nothing to do with democracy for if it did then the normal course of events would have been followed through to ensure it became a democracy. Of course this takes decades but America needed access to large oil supplies traded in US dollars immediately, that is why they invaded.

Quoted from blahNii

Getting rid of any despotic ruler always causes trouble.
They build convoluted nests of corruption that wreck basic social order in their countries so they can hold on to power.  Removing that kind of leader is never easy because they have many 'hangers-on' who profit from the corruption . . they don't want that gravy train to stop.  

Iraq is a prime example . . as will be Robert Mugabe and others.

How odd to recomend a ruler who champions genocide as a path to social harmony. I dont know about the rest of you but I broke out a bottle of the good stuff upon hearing of his hanging.

No matter what happens tyrants are better of dead. Iraq is a mess but the pacifists arguments  seem to lake substance. Im not saying I have the answers but something had to be done, surely.