So they've just about flattened Iraq in their search for WMDs which yielded nothing. They try and execute Saddam for crimes which he commited while under their backing and conveniently dropping charges of other atrocities he commited with their blessing.
Today, SMH reports that they shelled a village in Somalia. In pursuit of suspected Al Qaeda terrorists hiding there. I mean come on, don't these people have enough problems already??? And shelling an entire village? Don't they have Navy Seals or whatever the hell their "elite" commandoes (who seem rather useless) are called that can go in quietly and find these people?
. . . .they would look even more foolish if they had persisted in more 'charges' against S.H now he is dead.
One would think! Next months long court case "I sentance you to death." "Ummm objection, he's already dead."
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Don't they have Navy Seals or whatever the hell their "elite" commandoes (who seem rather useless) are called that can go in quietly and find these people?
Please, please, please say that to a Seal, and make sure theirs a video camera so we can all enjoy watching him clean your clock!
I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
I'm so glad you're happy that America killed another 50 innocent civilians, this time in Somalia. So far they are are outstripping Saddam in the torture and killing of stakes, but of course no American leader will be bought to trial for first supporting dictators in carrying out their oppression and secondly for causing the deaths and torture of untold thousands of innocent civilians around the world.
Quoted from aquamonkey
One would think! Next months long court case "I sentance you to death." "Ummm objection, he's already dead."
It is normal in democracies (and I believe according to Bush and Howard Iraq is now a full fledged democracy) that all the charges are heard and investigated before the perpetrator is sentenced. Not just one small specific set that cannot implicate anyone else, then a rapid botched up execution before the ink is dry and finally the remaining charges that can implicate third parties are conveniently dropped letting the third parties off Scott free.
Just good to see Iraq is a just, fair and model democracy for the rest of the Arab world to follow.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
People hold up Democracy like some sort of All World panacea . . which it is not.
There are places where it will never work . . imagine democracy working smoothly in a country as big as China . . . . or any country with very strong religious culture *the whole Midd East* or in Kingdom blends like Fiji and Tonga.
The populations of vastly differing cultures have been forced together to get along now by 'Globalisation' and it is showing all men that the differences that make us interesting by our Menu choices can be a serious problem in the money/trading/warfare areas.
I will be out of the country for the first 12 days of BB . how clever am I ! Smart enough to leave the 'dead-heads' behind
. . . .they would look even more foolish if they had persisted in more 'charges' against S.H now he is dead.
I should have been more articulate with that statement, I suppose. The charges were always there, they conveniently left them off the list until he was dead. Then it was a case of "Oh well, he's already dead. No sense in trying him for *those* crimes as well."
Quoted from aquamonkey
Please, please, please say that to a Seal, and make sure theirs a video camera so we can all enjoy watching him clean your clock!
They would be welcome to "clean my clock". It would be the only thing they'd be successful at. pfffth.
In heaven, there are no interesting people - Nietzsche
I should have been more articulate with that statement, I suppose. The charges were always there, they conveniently left them off the list until he was dead. Then it was a case of "Oh well, he's already dead. No sense in trying him for *those* crimes as well."
He got treated pretty much as many Australian criminals who have a long history of violence. The charges he faced were the ones the prosecutors felt confident of getting a conviction on. . . that is a very common thing to do in the court system. There will always be charges he could have faced but what is the point of more once he has been found guilty of some of the most serious.
Prosecutors frequently keep some charges 'up the barrel' just in case there is a technical problem with the trial . . lest he could not be charged again on certain crimes . . having a back-up set means they might keep him out of harms way on something different.
The extra charges were 'on the list' because they had to be 'dismissed' in court . . if they had never been 'listed' they would not have had to go into court and have them removed.
I will be out of the country for the first 12 days of BB . how clever am I ! Smart enough to leave the 'dead-heads' behind
Pakistan is a democracy isn't it and has religious extremism? Isn't India also a successful democracy, the largest in the world? Democracy would work for China just as well but it suits the West to leave it as communist and allow it to daily oppress and kill its citizens and the natives of outlying provinces.
A senior US State Department official once said that America prefers to deal with benevolent to America dictators than any democracies, as the dictators are more easily manipulated and controlled without having to go through all the rules and regulations of democratic countries.
As to Saddam's charges. They had charged him with two other lots of offences that he was to face witnesses for. He was in no way treated like any Australian criminal, how disingenuous and insulting to our judicial system. In our system alleged criminals face all the charges bought against them. There may be other crimes and circumstances that cannot be proven or hard to prove so they are not bought against the accused and dropped, but every charge that is, is tried. Maybe the perpetrator is not found guilty in all of them and they may carry different sentences which are added concurrently, but every charge is heard and prosecuted even if the prosecution then comes up and decides not to continue with those charges.
Saddam was charged with three separate alleged killings, many others were not bought against him like the gassings in Halabja (with the reason the US would be implicated in a cover up). As soon as he was found guilty on the first charge and before the ink was dry he was hung. That would not happen in Australia, every alleged crime an accused is charged with must be have its day in court and be prosecuted and defended.
Yes prosecutors hold charges, but these were not held but tabled in the court with witnesses subpoenaed. It is also interesting to note that the one charge they hung Saddam on was the small uprising against him and his then sentencing to death of the 148 Shiias involved. First point is that George Bush as governor of Texas had signed the death sentence of around the same number of people (some who are now known to be innocent), but when George W Bush was asked what he would do if a small town attempted to assassinate him as the president of the USA, he said he would seek the death sentence against them all.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
Saddam was tried for a crime which killed 148 people. The gassing in Halabja killed an estimated 5000 people. I would think that an attack which kills nearly an entire town would take precedence . Silly me.... or should that be clever American coverup?
In heaven, there are no interesting people - Nietzsche
Pakistan is a democracy isn't it and has religious extremism? Isn't India also a successful democracy, the largest in the world? Democracy would work for China just as well but it suits the West to leave it as communist and allow it to daily oppress and kill its citizens . . . . . . .how disingenuous and insulting to our judicial system. In our system alleged criminals face all the charges bought against them. . . . but every charge is heard and prosecuted even if the prosecution then comes up and decides not to continue with those charges.
. . .. . That would not happen in Australia, every alleged crime an accused is charged with must be have its day in court and be prosecuted and defended.
. . . Yes prosecutors hold charges, George Bush as governor of Texas had signed the death sentence of around the same number of people (some who are now known to be innocent), but when George W Bush was asked what he would do if a small town attempted to assassinate him as the president of the USA, he said he would seek the death sentence against them all.
You are making MY case for me! . . India . .Pakistan . .China . . all have solid, safe, forward moving ecomnomies with a good justice system for all citizens!! . .just remember that Pakistan is the main 'hiddy-hole' for Taliban training and the government can't stop it 'coz the locals are all too busy farming Opium instead of nourishing food . .thereby making authorities turn a blind eye to the biggst drug trade in the world. . and their government can't stop it. . and India. . well lets get started on their issues . . graft/corruption are rife with bribery and blackmail viewed as everyday ways for workers to get their income. . (and public servants are at the top of that list) . . and Chinas brutality speaks for itself. . Saddam kept a lid on a corrupt and divided Iraq and look what has happened since the good old USA moved in to stick its brand of Democracy to the people. . China is in the same boat.
The Iraqi system of justice was presided over by Sadam and his henchmen for decades . . so it jumped up and bit him . . who are you and I to judge their system?. . we might not agree with how it works but it is what they have.
I will be out of the country for the first 12 days of BB . how clever am I ! Smart enough to leave the 'dead-heads' behind
Authorities described Sudani as a senior al-Qaeda operative in East Africa and close associate of cell leader Mohammed, who also is wanted in connection with the 1998 bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 224 people.
Is it just me or does it look like the U.S. is trying to 'clean up' crimes from the past a little too quickly? How much were they (the U.S.) responsible for.....
And the world still waits for Osama's capture.
In heaven, there are no interesting people - Nietzsche
As the Labor member of Kingsford Smith once sung..... "U.S. forces give the nod, it's a setback for your country". This is why "little Johnny" brown noses Bush....So they won't bomb us!!!
You are making MY case for me! . . India . .Pakistan . .China . . all have solid, safe, forward moving ecomnomies with a good justice system for all citizens!! . .just remember that Pakistan is the main 'hiddy-hole' for Taliban training and the government can't stop it 'coz the locals are all too busy farming Opium instead of nourishing food . .thereby making authorities turn a blind eye to the biggst drug trade in the world. . and their government can't stop it. . and India. . well lets get started on their issues . . graft/corruption are rife with bribery and blackmail viewed as everyday ways for workers to get their income. . (and public servants are at the top of that list) . . and Chinas brutality speaks for itself. . Saddam kept a lid on a corrupt and divided Iraq and look what has happened since the good old USA moved in to stick its brand of Democracy to the people. . China is in the same boat.
The Iraqi system of justice was presided over by Sadam and his henchmen for decades . . so it jumped up and bit him . . who are you and I to judge their system?. . we might not agree with how it works but it is what they have.
You don't even read your own posts.
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People hold up Democracy like some sort of All World panacea . . which it is not.
There are places where it will never work . . imagine democracy working smoothly in a country as big as China . . . . or any country with very strong religious culture *the whole Midd East* or in Kingdom blends like Fiji and Tonga.
It has worked in places like Pakistan and India is my point and that it can work there it can work anywhere. A forced democracy has never ever worked in any country in history with the exception of Japan, but even there there were circumstances that aided in Japan's democratisation after WWII. In every other case in history where a democracy has been forced upon a country it has failed with dire consequences, as Iraq is proving.
Iran is a success story on how a democratisation should be occurring, it is how it happened in Indonesia and it would have happened in Iraq as well but for the neo-cons and the greed of American oil companies along with the Jewish lobby.
It was not Iraqi justice that bit Saddam, but American orchestrated and controlled quasi Iraqi justice.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
Bush NOW wants the ideas of others ??? . . after he has 'stuffed up' Royally !
How cheeky is that? . . like me making a hash of a cake recipe and then asking a friend to fix the problem without starting with new ingredients. He has already made a huge mess, now nobody in their right mind would take over. .
If he would take a suggestion from me it would be this: Ban all religious meetings . . pull down the Mosques and outlaw public religious events.
Sectarian fighting has now taken over and the people need a 'shock' to make them wake up. They don't hate the USA as much as they hate each others 'sects'. The troops on the ground are now just the excuse Iraqi's needed to really start killing their neighbours.
I will be out of the country for the first 12 days of BB . how clever am I ! Smart enough to leave the 'dead-heads' behind
The Iraq Survey Group (ISG), made up of some of the worlds best military and political minds, with the world's best experts on the Middle East came up with a full solution, a political and diplomatic one (which should have been the recourse in March 20 2003 when the UN asked for 6 more months for a diplomatic solution, which Bush ignored).
So for Bush to come up and say show me yours is disingenuous in the extreme, when he sacked every general and planner who spoke against his surge plan and dumped a thorough and workable solution from the ISG because it was not what the neocons wanted.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
Logged
. .they would look even more foolish if they had persisted in more 'charges' against S.H now he is dead. 
