Well, here we see again, The Middle East is going to another civil war again.

I feel sadden about the innocent people caught up and leaving their country their were born in Lebanon and in Israel. I see there were a lot of bombings around Haifa and Beirut, airports and bridges to trap the country.

Unfortunately I can't never see any peace in the Middle East. I know we want to see peace in the Middle East, but there are some idiots in this world today that don't want peace and refuse to lay down their weapons !!  

So you're in the crowd that thinks no conflict = peace

Quoted from aquamonkey

So you're in the crowd that thinks no conflict = peace

Well we don't like war, don't we??

WTF?

Quoted from babes_mate

Well we don't like war, don't we??

*scratches head*  

Was that a yes, or a no, B_M?  

Quoted from Paula

*scratches head*  

Was that a yes, or a no, B_M?  

No, I am against war. I wish for peace !!

Well that's one thing we agree on, then.

When has there really been Peace? Many third world countries have continual Warfare. Many Middle Eastern Countries are at war with each other. Ireland has been in a Civil/Religious War for decades and decades. Just because it is not shown on the news 24/7 does not mean Peace reigns supreme. Some places in the world have never known Peace in generations. We ARE the lucky Country, mainly because of our remoteness and alies.

I have never been able to understand why people (usually the sign carriers IMHO) think that the absence of fighting equats to peace.....?

Quoted from Aussies_Online

If the teenage Muslims were at school, learning about things rather than plotting their revenge on America, we would live in a better world. But of course, any 15 year old today will tell you that he knows about everything... Far more than any school could possibly teach him.

Here are generalisations and racial stereotyping again. What about all the Muslim terrorists who did go to school or were at school and still comitted terrorists acts (the majority btw).

Why Muslims, what about Christian teenagers who go to school and decide to shoot or blow them up. are they less of a terrorist and are they not also attacking America?

In fact I believe most young terrorists are recruited and taught in schools, so they are getting an eduction.

As usual things are never quite as black and white, Muslim and Christian as being made out.

Quoted from Aussies_Online

And may I ask how do you know that to be so?
From a logical point of view, people do not get an education and then decide to blow themselve up. Commensense dictate otherwise. And commonsense is what an education gives you.

And by the way, there was no racial stereotyping.
All terrorists are Muslims.
The ones we are talking about anyway.
You know, the ones with a pilot licence.

The London bombers were all very well educated with their leader being a well regarded school teacher.

The Bali bombers all finished educations.

The September 2001 terrorists were all well educated, they had to be to be able to pull off what they did including getting pilot licences.

The Beslan terrorists were educated (at least from memory the leaders were).

...and it goes on. In fact it is the better educated who are more likely to be recruited and to comit the big atrocities (there are many large tomes of psychology why this is so). A couple of those arrested for the attempted recent plane bombings were new Islamist converts and well educated.

I find your pidgeon holing and racial undertones very perturbing. "All terrorists are Muslims". A paragraph on its own so as to stand out. McVey and his partner weren't Muslim, KKK aren't Muslims, the American school shooters and bombers aren't Muslim, The Maoists terrorists aren't Muslim, The Papuan rebel groups aren't Muslim etc.

BTW

Quoted Text

Some people use the term "Islamic terrorism" instead of "Islamist terrorism", but this use is contentious; many Muslims, particularly those supporting liberal movements within Islam, do not accept that attacks on civilians can ever be justified by Islam. From this perspective, describing terrorism as "Islamic" is seen as a slur on Islam. Although "Islamic terrorism" is commonly used by Western media to describe the activity of a wide variety of groups, some believe that "Islamist terrorism" is a more accurate term that respects the sensitivities of Muslims.

That would not be the reasons for you getting banned.....
you have baited, been rude, called into question members' lack of manliness, their youth and therefore their knowledge, made sexist and very degrading remarks regarding women... I'm sure there are plenty more but I am bored. It would be different if you would 'discuss' or 'debate' a topic without personally attacking someone else's point of view. This is what has put you offside AO. We don't really care if members love or hate America, Love or hate John Howard or love or hate Muslims as long as their posts are not racist or  hate filled or personally denigrating someone else for their point of view.

Quoted from SuziH re AO

...you have baited, been rude, called into question members' lack of manliness, their youth and therefore their knowledge, made sexist and very degrading remarks regarding women...It would be different if you would 'discuss' or 'debate' a topic without personally attacking someone else's point of view...We don't really care if members love or hate America, Love or hate John Howard or love or hate Muslims as long as their posts are not racist or hate filled or personally denigrating someone else for their point of view.

Why is it that the majority of those that shares views such as AO's, the liberals, the conservatives or whatever like minded group always resort to insults. I see this time and time again by right-wing journo's/howard propagandists such as Andrew Bolt in Melbourne and Piers Ackerman in Sydney and of course shock jocks like Stan Zemanek etc. Personal insults are really un-intelligent and say alot about the person who uses them.

What you say x452 is absolutely correct.  I also find that the same crowd do not not use any researched data, and never have something new to say about an issue. It's just the same old rhetoric over and over.

It's the hypocrisy that can get me squirming.

They just can not see that they are not applying the Mosaic law: treating others the same as they would want to be treated themselves. And yet they will be the first to go on about morals, religion, civilization yadda yadda yadda.

Now now, Mr. Online. I haven't fully read into both of your arguments and sides, but I think we should be all able to present your opinions, but still have some respect for the other members. There should be no flaming or personal attacks on each other, this should be fundemental in creating a great community forum. This should go for everyone.

We all should respect each other more and respect their opinions and views. Arguments are good in a forum, but when people use personal attacks, it's unacceptable.

And if you think just because I might be one of the younger people on this forum and my opinion is not needed here, then so be it. I can live with that, but don't go around attacking someone on their personality, views or opinions.

Just my 2 Cents.

Quoted from normangerman

Now now, Mr. Online. I haven't fully read into both of your arguments and sides, but I think we should be all able to present your opinions, but still have some respect for the other members. .

What other members????. . they have all gone.!!

Answering this person only 'feeds his need'.

It is time for Admin to edit each and every one of his posts.      
Banning is not going to work. .  

OK enough is enough. Aussie-Online's personal attacks continue, despite warnings, and I am suspending his/her account. Please continue your discussion.

And an obvious warning to everyone - post your views, make it lively, but step into personal attacking mode once too often and you're outta here.

Move on now.. nothing to see.

Darn it. Don't delete the posts until everyone has time to read them! That would have been extremely entertaining to read!

(ROFL)

I hope some of the old regulars that may have left because of friction will return. Come back everyone and let's get back on track.

Yeah!
Who has left??
Bsquared hasn't been on in forever.
Is meandean still here? Hopefully. No one else is missing are they? :S
I'll shut up, really I will! :p

I found it fascinating that the most belligerent postee supported belligerent foreign policies....so at least he/she was a consistent practitioner of her/his world view.

Argument is the weaponry of a democracy.

The sword, tyranny.

Im here - but im not a regular - old thou

If you have a heart you will watch this video. Just like the matrix you have a choice. If you take the pill (watch the video) you will see the truth but will never be the same again. 4 minutes duration.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6335598397615094716&q=ISRAEL

I am merging his post with the thread titled "Troubled Middle East".  It fits well there and may generate some good discussion.

Quoted from Ganza

If you have a heart you will watch this video. Just like the matrix you have a choice. If you take the pill (watch the video) you will see the truth but will never be the same again. 4 minutes duration.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6335598397615094716&q=ISRAEL

OK . . I watched it.  

Now what????? . . if Palestine is given back to Palestinians . .we will have a Jewish member here next year showing us the exact same video  . .but from the Israeli side.

You have shown us the problem . . now tell us what the solution is! . .  
Otherwise you become exactly the same as sensationalist current affairs programs that give us tea time shock tactics to get ratings . . and never get back to us with an answer.

What is your answer???  

I see both sides in this dispute as being provocative with an all or nothing agenda.

The Palestinians and Jews are in reality the same people separated only by stubbornness.  The both claim the same religious and cultural heritage.  Over time both parties have been the principal occupants of this part of the World and have been fighting over it since before Christ.

The Palestinian/Israel conflict will only be settled when both parties agree to co-habitation.

Quoted from tramp

The Palestinian/Israel conflict will only be settled when both parties agree to co-habitation.

Do you think that is possible? Who are the aggressors? On the news I see suicide bombers and then next minute I see Apache helo's and tanks rolling through stone huts!

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Do you think that is possible?

The realist in me says no. The reason being for peace to prevail they need leaders who are advanced in their thinking and humanity (ie. Mandela), and these kinds of people are only 1 in a million. Both sides need leaders who will not be influenced by nationalists and the guerilla groups. They must be willing to treat Palestinians and Israeli's as equals and break down the physical and psychological walls of segregation. This is going to cost a lot of money and a huge peacekeeping force but I think if both parties were serious about controlling the guerillas it is possible.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

On the news I see suicide bombers and then next minute I see Apache helo's and tanks rolling through stone huts!

That's what the Israeli friendly anglo-western media show you. If you watch the BBC or SBS or any European news they will often show the Palestinian child or family that were innocently gunned down that provoked the suicide attack. Now this is not always the case, suicide bombers aren't always in retaliation and Israel aren't always the aggressor, the vice versa is common as well. But you get the picture?

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

Do you think that is possible?  

There is a more conciliatory echo doing the rounds among the younger Palestinians and Israelis now.  A yearn to live in peace, for once, will see the two groups become more accomodating in the following generations.

Once all the war mongers of the 50’s and 60’s fade out, a new regime will begin to emerge.

Quoted from tramp

There is a more conciliatory echo doing the rounds among the younger Palestinians and Israelis now.  A yearn to live in peace, for once, will see the two groups become more accomodating in the following generations.

Once all the war mongers of the 50’s and 60’s fade out, a new regime will begin to emerge.

The problem with that hope . . is that those of the 50' and 60's generation are the ones that raised the generation of kids that are at the forefront of todays trouble . . how could they have learnd peace at the knees of those 'war mongers'. ??    it is impossible to pass on something you do not know . . and peace is in that catagory.

Quoted from blahNii

The problem with that hope . . is that those of the 50' and 60's generation are the ones that raised the generation of kids that are at the forefront of todays trouble . . how could they have learnd peace at the knees of those 'war mongers'. ??    it is impossible to pass on something you do not know . . and peace is in that catagory.

I never understood why the current generation of rulers, the Bush's and Blairs of the world, who experienced the decade of "peace and love" are so pro-war. Only that the others around them, the neo-cons, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al are of an older generation, which may explain a few things. I have no doubt that without the puppetry of the neo-cons, Bush would not be such a war monger.

When the current generation of 20-40 year olds reach the age group of 50-70, where they are most likely to hold positions of power, there should be much less war mongers among them (hopefully).

Let's hope these pro-war neo-con type young Liberals, young Republicans and radicalised Muslim youths (who's parents are not radical) do not get into positions of power.

Quoted from x452

. . . . . . Let's home these pro-war neo-con type young Liberals, young Republicans and radicalised Muslim youths (who parents are not radical) do not get into positions of power.

The funny thing about power is that it attracts the very worst people for the job.
They are always 'capable' . . but that does not make them wise enough to do the job. Truly wise people know that the job cannot be done and they remain sane and 'nice'.  . .it takes people with 'radical' drive to be brave enough to attempt rulership.
Tactical skills (needed in politics) are not the best base for deciding big issues that effect families and the little people.  The is why big business is running this country now. . .they are Big Tacticians.  

Quoted from blahNii

The funny thing about power is that it attracts the very worst people for the job.

True. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The path to attain absolute power is not a clean one. Even those that are half good beforehand (Blair might be an example) get corrupted during the ascent.

Phillip Ruddock, as the Immigration Minister an absolute arsehole, is said to have been a good person before selling his soul, according to his daughter.

It's quite shameful that he continues to wear his Amnesty International badge, I would have asked him to remove it if I were AI.

Quoted Text

The daughter of Australian Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock says she has left Australia partly as a result of her father's hardline stance on asylum.
Kirsty Ruddock, 30, left the country last week to work as a volunteer in a developing country.

Before she left, Ms Ruddock told the ABC's Australian Story programme, which was to be aired on Monday, that she found it difficult to reconcile the values her father had taught her, with his policies.

Quoted from x452

. . . . . Even those that are half good beforehand (Blair might be an example) get corrupted during the ascent.  

I would not even say 'corrupt' . . I met a politician who was canvassing door-to-door many years ago. He was new to the electorate and calling on everone he could to introduce himself and outline his ideals and aims if he were to be elected.
They sounded noble and he seemed like such a nice guy.

Then he got elected!! . . for the first 6 months he could not be contacted because he became busy finding an office. . getting staff . .deciding how to put a 'disabled access' ramp at the front door.  Next came his fuss about the staff he could hire and office equipment . .then allowances for travel and postage. He sent A4 flyers to the whole neighbourhood to let us know of his 'battles' with red tape and waste (the flyer cost 5c each to print and deliver *that was not waste*    ) .

I don't think he was a bad man . . but it shows that even the most avid social advocate can become sidetracked . .which HE did at lightening speed.

He lasted only 1 term BTW.    

Quoted from blahNii

I don't think he was a bad man . . but it shows that even the most avid social advocate can become sidetracked

To many, once they feel the power and experience the privileges of office they become as addicted as any drug addict.  This explains the desperate measures they will engage to retain office.

Quoted from tramp

To many, once they feel the power and experience the privileges of office they become as addicted as any drug addict.  This explains the desperate measures they will engage to retain office.

Yup. Look how desperate lil Johnny is to hold on to power, given half a chance I'm sure he'd sell his first born.

He keeps delaying his retirement to the detriment of the party. It's very sad really.

Quoted from x452

Yup. Look how desperate lil Johnny is to hold on to power, given half a chance I'm sure he'd sell his first born.

He keeps delaying his retirement to the detriment of the party. It's very sad really.

If David Hicks is still in Gitmo by Nov . . johnny will be gone . .we win one way or the other.  

Quoted from blahNii

If David Hicks is still in Gitmo by Nov . . johnny will be gone . .we win one way or the other.  

Gee you're hopeful that Hicks will tip the election in Labor's favour?

I am not, been disappointed too many times (and expecting to be again)  

Quoted from x452

Gee you're hopeful that Hicks will tip the election in Labor's favour?

I am not, been disappointed too many times (and expecting to be again)  

You won't be this time . . I don't vote ( a previously known fact) but I call on stores and talk to people in business every day for my work.
The groundswell is huge about this issue . .i don't care either way about Labor - Liberal - Greens etc.  I am calling it as I see it . . even die hard Johhny fans are annoyed with him now . .  

Six months ago 'ittle Johnny said Hicks would be in court within the week, then Ruddock said it again a couple of weeks later ...well Philip and 'ittle Johnny we're still waiting.

I guess our beloved *sic* PM isn't as influential in America as he thinks he is. Seeing as 'ittle Johnny is poll driven, Hicks would be home now if he really had any influence.  The truth is, Howard was just a "yes" man to George dwabba.  If it wasn't for our compliance in the invasion of Iraq, I reckon George dwabba wouldn't know who the PM of Australia was/is.  All that back-slapping seen in the news reels was just ego stroking.

'ittle Johnny made his bed with george dwabba and now that george is pregnant will 'ittle Johnny deny sleeping with him.  It's going to be child support for you my friend.

Food for thought:

If say China were the superpower and decided to give 1/3 of Australia to Indonesia and you have a week to pack your things and go, how would you feel?

You are not allowed to sell your home. You are not allowed to stay. You have not choice. Your land deeds mean nothing. All the years, work, love etc, you have put into your home mean nothing.


I think the Palestinians have everyright to be upset. Tell me an Aussie that wouldn't try and defend his home if this were to happen.

To make things werse, even though Israel were given 1/3 of Palestine, they now have taken more than 50%. Over the last 4 decades the Israeli have continued to "steal" land. Bulldoze homes and kill civilian Palestinians defending their homes  with sticks and stones. The Israeli have violated about 100 U.N santions over these 4 decades including countless human rights violations (as compared with one David Hicks) yet the U. N does nothing because the U.S sponsors Israel. Then Palestinians take 2 Israeli soldiers hostage to negotiate the release of their friends/family and the U.S declares war on Palestine.

Do you ever wonder why there are so many angry, frustrated middle eastern people in the world? All this has been happening in the middle east for decades and the whole world turns their backs to them.
-We drew first blood. We are the bad guys. I used to despise the Muslims myseld until late last year when I did a bit of reading about what is really happening. Do not believe what you see on TV. Do some research outside of the U.S and Israeli controlled propoganda. We have been lied to. What we are calling terrorists are often resistance fighters defending their homes.

Would you defend your home?

Quoted from Ganza

Food for thought:

1./If say China were the superpower and decided to give 1/3 of Australia to Indonesia and you have a week to pack your things and go, how would you feel?

2./You are not allowed to sell your home. You are not allowed to stay. You have not choice. Your land deeds mean nothing. All the years, work, love etc, you have put into your home mean nothing. . . . .

3./To make things worse, even though Israel were given 1/3 of Palestine, they now have taken more than 50%.  . . . . .

4./Do you ever wonder why there are so many angry, frustrated middle eastern people in the world?

5./Would you defend your home?

1./ I would feel annoyed.  . . but I would move to a place in the 2/3's that is not Indonesian and I would expect my fellow countrymen to help me accomodate my family after such un upheaval. .

2./ I would be amused . . I don't own my home.   and an earthquake would render everyones land/house deeds useless too. All material things can be destroyed or stolen. What can ANY person do about it in the bigger picture. Palestinians don't have the market cornered on 'loss of homes'.

3./ over 20% of current adult Australians are living in rented homes and that figure is about to jump dramatically.  Why is home ownership THE measure of our success?? . . it is a fake measuring line. Your house could fall down or burn up tomorrow. (I have seen a couple of millionaire places tur