Now where have I heard that before? Sure you're not the hand up Bush's rear end?
I understand this is your opinion and nothing will change it, you're right-wing and think everything is simple. You don't see things as right or wrong, but rather as left or right. This is where most right-wingers fall over.
What part of 'violence only breeds violence' don't you get? Do you have kids? Is this the world you want to leave behind for your children? A world where we (the good guys) exploit poor countries for their resources, leave their people poor and angry which causes them to turn against us and wage war against us and so we bomb them. And the cycle continues.
Lebanon was on the verge (if not already) of becoming a successful democracy in the middle-east. The cause of the problems in the country have been due to outside interference by Syria and the U.S./Israel.
If we were smart, we would have tried to make sure Lebanon succeeded by helping them get rid of Hezbollah, instead of trying to use them as a pawn.
Prior to the current violence ...
Quoted Text
The country is recovering from the effects of the war, with foreign investment and tourism on the rise. Syrian forces occupied large areas of the country until April 2005, and Iran exercises heavy influence over Hezbollah forces in the Beqaa Valley and Southern Lebanon. Nevertheless, areas of Lebanon and Beirut in particular are moving toward a sense of normality and stability. Lebanese civil society enjoys significantly more freedoms than elsewhere in the Arab world. After twelve years, the reconstruction of downtown Beirut is largely complete. Lebanon's telecommunication rehabilitation is well underway, and in 2004 and 2005 foreign investment in the country topped $1 billion. Solidere has also announced many projects that will be complete in 2007.
It makes you wonder if the U.S. actually wants middle eastern countries to succeed. Because if they did they wouldn't have a reason to have their army there and will lose control of the oil.
Quoted from Aussies_Online
If you want to be nice to those terrorists, my advice to you is to leave Australia before Asio comes and knock on your door.
Just because I don't support the the methods the west has employed to defeat terrorism (even though they had a major hand in causing most of it), it doesn't mean I support the terrorists. Not everyone thinks as simply as you do. If I had my way both sides (U.S. administration and fundamentalists) would be 'disposed' of.
Australian peacekeepers recalled July 27, 2006 - 1:01PM
Twelve Australian soldiers attached to the United Nations peacekeeping mission in southern Lebanon are to be withdrawn.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said the decision was due to the dangers of the ongoing war between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas, which resulted in the death this week of four UN observers.
Dr Nelson said the UN personnel were being withdrawn to Beirut because of the dangers.
He said there was a great degree of risk to everyone in southern Lebanon, notwithstanding Israeli efforts to target only Hizbollah.
"Late yesterday we made a decision to bring our 12 ADF personnel back from southern Lebanon to Beirut," he told ABC radio.
"I am not prepared to say at the moment precisely where they are. We have made the decision to bring them back to Beirut and they are being transferred in an appropriate and timely manner."
Dr Nelson said southern Lebanon was a war zone and Israel had had its back to the wall in recent years with Hizbollah and Hamas, supported to some extent by Iran and Syria.
"It is very important that Australians appreciate, no matter how affronted we are by what Israel is doing, that they are dealing with Hizbollah and Hamas who are committed to the abolition of Israel as a state," he said.
Dr Nelson said Israel was seeking to deal with what was a terrorist organisation.
"We should feel enormous sympathy for the everyday Lebanese person," he said.
"We should also feel some sympathy for the Lebanese government. But at the moment let us hope an appropriate longstanding resolution comes to this conflict. We can't afford to have a situation where bandaids are being applied to it again."
The dozen Australian soldiers were attached to the UN Truce Supervision Organisation (UNSTO) with which Australia has been involved since 1956.
Earlier this month, Dr Nelson backed participation of Australian troops in a new Middle East peacekeeping mission but today hedged on any contribution.
He said Australian troops would not be deployed under any circumstances unless the government was satisfied about the specific circumstances of the mission.
It would need to be a multinational force endorsed by the UN as part of a long-term resolution to the problem.
"I would be surprised, however, if Australia were to be committing a significant number of troops to this area," Dr Nelson said.
"All of this is hypothetical of course. In the long term I think it would be unlikely if we were. But we are able to do so, were we to be asked and all of the necessary preconditions were being met."
A farmer goes out one day and buys a brand new stud rooster for his chicken coop.
The new rooster struts over to the old rooster and says, "OK old fart, time for you to retire."
The old rooster replies, "Come on, surely you cannot handle ALL of these chickens. Look what it has done to me. Can't you just let me have the two old hens over in the corner?"
The young rooster says, "Beat it: You are washed up and I am taking over."
The old rooster says, "I tell you what, young stud. I will race you around the farmhouse. Whoever wins gets the exclusive domain over the entire chicken coop."
The young rooster laughs. "You know you don't stand a chance old man.
So, just to be fair I will give you a head start."
The old rooster takes off running. About 15 seconds later the young rooster takes off running after him. They round the front porch of the farmhouse and the young rooster has closed the gap. He is already about 5 inches behind the old rooster and gaining fast.
The farmer, meanwhile, is sitting in his usual spot on the front porch when he sees the roosters running by. He grabs his shotgun and - BOOM - He blows the young rooster to bits.
The farmer sadly shakes his head and says, "Dammit... third gay rooster I bought this month."
Moral of this story.... Don't mess with the OLD FARTS - age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.
I understand this is your opinion and nothing will change it, you're right-wing and think everything is simple. You don't see things as right or wrong, but rather as left or right. This is where most right-wingers fall over.
Nope. Not at all. Your whole argument until this present post was that the West was no better than the terrorists when it came to killing civilians.
Civilise comes from the word civilian.
There is nothing civilise about terrorists or dictators. Those people are fanatics and do not care about their own people.
In 1991 Saddam Hussein put one million of his men on the front line and watched them being killed by carpet bombing while he was enjoying the good life in his palace in Bagdah. Any man trying to pull back was shot as a traitor.
There is nothing civilise about Hamas. The reason they keep calling it an "holy war" is because the west represent everything which is against their religion. And they hate us for it. They don't care about the oil or anything else. They simply don't approve of our moral code. They think we are evil and we must die.
A civilise person with any brain would not take on the west which has an unlimited supply of weapons to fight any war.
A civilise person would not put the lives of his family and friends at risk by committing a terrorist act, while knowing fully well that retaliation could be in the form of a bomb raid on his home town.
The West expect that no government in the world will tolerate any group of terrorists forming and plotting against the West. If the government of Lebanon had arrested and jailed or deported those people, we would not be in the situation we are in today.
Why do Lebanon let terrorists from Syria and Iran in its country? If Lebanon cannot handle the situation, all they have to do is ask for our help. We will be happy to help.
If civilians are afraid for their life, they should start considering seriously helping the west by telling us where those terrorists are hiding. But of course, those nice civilise terrorists that you are talking about, will kill their own mother for dobbing them in.
Yes it is that simple. Always is. You are either with us or against us.
Like it or not... But we are at war.
The Western World and most of the rest of the world declared war on terrorism after the 9/11.
"War on Terror". What an absolute load of rubbish. A made up term for a made up war so democracy can be legally trampled by the western leaders invoking this "war on terror".
If just a fraction of the money spent on fighting terrorism were spent on fighting the road toll or drug and alchohol related deaths more lives would be saved than would ever be prevented by the "war on terror".
More people will die on our roads in a year than are likely to die from terrorist attacks in 20 years, even including Bali and more attacks like it. If all the money spent on fighting terrorism in the world were spent on fighting poverty then terrorism would all but be eliminated.
Terrorism is also being used to keep people in a constant state of fear way above what they need be purely for political purposes. In every survey Howard comes out on top in "protecting" the people against terrorism. In real terms, apart from his great political scare campaigns he has done little except erode many of the democratic freedoms we have always taken for granted. Each year or so he raised new laws and increases the already draconian ones in place "because they are urgently needed to protect this great nation".
You and many other Australians, but especially Americans have been hoodwinked.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
"War on Terror". What an absolute load of rubbish. A made up term for a made up war so democracy can be legally trampled by the western leaders invoking this "war on terror".
That's a matter of opinion. Your opinion. I have not seen my democratic rights being trampled on. All I have seen is security being up-graded. This might be a little bit inconvenient at time, but I prefer being delayed 15 minutes at the airport while knowing that there won't be a terrorist on-board my plane.
Next you will tell us that terrorists don't exist. Just like the holocaust did not exist. When people can walk into your country, hijack your own plane and fly it into a building... That is not democracy... That is political correctness gone insane.
Quoted Text
If just a fraction of the money spent on fighting terrorism were spent on fighting the road toll or drug and alchohol related deaths more lives would be saved than would ever be prevented by the "war on terror".
The road toll cannot be reduced anymore that it has already been. If anyone is being hoodwinked, it is those who believe that you can put 4 million cars on the road without having anyone crashing into each other. Half of the population has been hoodwinked to believe that fix speed cameras will save their life. The fact that we had the darn things for almost 10 years and that the road toll has not be reduced should make people realise that they had been hoodwinked. Unfortunately, the people are only clever chimpanzee.
The only way to reduce the carnage on the roads is through driver education. Not with money. 35 years ago, you could get away with learning the rule book by heart and take a drive around the bloc to get your licence. The reason you could was that the traffic was only a third of what it is now and cars were a lot slower, particulary in the acceleration department.
As long as the system tells people that what's make a good driver is to not break any of the rules in their little book, people will die. People have no respect for cars. They do not understand that a car is a lethal weapon. They sit in there with the CD player on like if they were watching television in their lounge room.
How do you stop people from taking drugs? Nobody force them to. And if you forbid them, they will tell you that you are trampling on their democratic rights. Same goes with alchohol and cigarettes.
People have the right to die which either way they want to. That is their democratic right. The smoker knows that there is a very high probability that the cigarettes will kill him. The drinker knows it too and so does the drug addict. Their philosophy is to enjoy the day without worrying about tomorrow.
The car driver however does not know that his car can kill him, because once he sit behind the wheel of a car, he thinks he is immortal. If people did truly realise the dangers associated with a car, half of the population would sell their car tomorrow and never drive a car again. You would have no women driving cars and no children in cars.
The reality is that in order to live a normal life, you need to put your fears aside and take a few risks. There is no such thing as being safe from everything and die peacefully of old age. The key to surviving is education. Self education... Not school education. Life education.
There is nothing civilise about terrorists or dictators. Those people are fanatics and do not care about their own people.
And you think America cares about it's soldiers throwing them into Iraq to be killed for oil? You think John Howard cares about his soldiers?
He couldn't care less about Private Kovco or his family, his lack of emotion following his death made me sick.
And if it was your brother or cousin or mate that was killed in Iraq, he wouldn't care either.
Quoted from Aussies_Online
There is nothing civilise about Hamas. The reason they keep calling it an "holy war" is because the west represent everything which is against their religion. And they hate us for it. They don't care about the oil or anything else. They simply don't approve of our moral code. They think we are evil and we must die.
Total cost of the cold war arms race is estimated at approx. 10 trillion dollars each spent by America and Russia. Terrorism is primarily a problem in poor countries, fundamentalists brain wash people who are poor and hungry and angry.
If all or part of that 20 trillion dollars was spent on building the economies of these third world countries terrorism either would not exist or would be so minor that it wouldn't even be something we'd be worried about.
Instead not only wasn't any real assistance offerred, we exploited them and are trying to take the only wealth they have, oil.
And you think America cares about it's soldiers throwing them into Iraq to be killed for oil? You think John Howard cares about his soldiers?
The soldiers of today are volonteers and choose that sort of life because they like it. Might be slightly different in America where they enlist in the army in exchange for free education. But even those people should know better, considering that America has been at war constantly for 60 years.
Quoted Text
Terrorism is primarily a problem in poor countries, fundamentalists brain wash people who are poor and hungry and angry.
Fundamentalists will stir the people into action if the people have some education to understand it all. Lack of education is the major cause of people being poor. So no... If this was the case, there would be more terrorist countries than the rest of us.
Quoted Text
If all or part of that 20 trillion dollars was spent on building the economies of these third world countries terrorism either would not exist or would be so minor that it wouldn't even be something we'd be worried about.
Don't call the Middle East "Third World Countries". They won't like it.
Terrorism has nothing to do with being poor. Terrorism is about Islam versus Christianity. It is all about religion. Which is why they call it "Holy War".
Poverty creates dictatorships and real wars. Hitler came into power because Germany had been ruined after having been made to pay reparations to France and other countries for the cost of WWI. Hitler promised the poor German people that he would make them rich again and they voted for him.
If we could solve the terrorism problem with money, we would have done it. Hamas does not want our money. They regard money as "Evil". If you give Hamas some money, they will use it to buy bigger bombs.
Lebanon was on the verge (if not already) of becoming a successful democracy in the middle-east. The cause of the problems in the country have been due to outside interference by Syria and the U.S./Israel.
If we were smart, we would have tried to make sure Lebanon succeeded by helping them get rid of Hezbollah, instead of trying to use them as a pawn.
From the Parliament of Australia, discussing Hezbollah in 2003
Quoted from Parliamentary Library
Amongst its stated objectives are the establishment of a Shiite theocracy in Lebanon, the destruction of Israel and the elimination of Western influences from the region. Its militant core is said to comprise some 300500 fighters, although there are thousands of active supporters.
Hezbollah wants to destroy Israel, which would be genocide, so it is possible that Israel feels it is fighting for its survival.
Also, quoted from the same source as above
Quoted Text
Lebanon refused to freeze Hezbollah's assets in response to a request by the US to do so in November 2001, claiming that Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance group.
So Hezbollah has support in Lebanon. It also has support in the Lebanese community in Australia as shown by the flag-waving during the protest marches against the war.
Terrorism has nothing to do with being poor. Terrorism is about Islam versus Christianity. It is all about religion. Which is why they call it "Holy War".
On the contrary, I believe poverty and lack of education (or even worse half-education) is the "breeding ground for terrorism". Religion is just a pawn, it has been used since the beginning to start wars.
You're looking at the superficial pretence the war is being waged on. The fundamentalists are all screaming "holy war" because it's a way of trying to get all Muslims around the world to unite against the west.
The fundamentalists have used religion because it's a sure fire way of garnering support for their cause since the middle east and a fair chunk of Asia and Africa is Muslim. And one of the 'commandments' for a true Muslim is to defend their religion when it is perceived to be under attack, which the fundamentalists have found very easy to make people believe based on the actions of the west in their countries.
Now if these people were not poor, had jobs and were not angry, I think the fundamentalists would find it much harder to recruit them to their cause. I believe people who are not poor are less likely to "go to war" in the name of religion.
What propaganda would Osama Bin-Laden use if there wasn't an over-presence of U.S. soldiers in the middle-east strategically placed in the oil rich areas? Or if Israel wasn't killing Palestinians or stealing their land? What if he could no longer say things like "Those evil infidels America and the COW are occupying our holy lands, stealing our wealth, raping our women and murdering our people". And you know these things are happening.
The fundamentalists have used religion because it's a sure fire way of garnering support for their cause since the middle east and a fair chunk of Asia and Africa is Muslim. And one of the 'commandments' for a true Muslim is to defend their religion when it is perceived to be under attack, which the fundamentalists have found very easy to make people believe based on the actions of the west in their countries.
Now if these people were not poor, had jobs and were not angry, I think the fundamentalists would find it much harder to recruit them to their cause. I believe people who are not poor are less likely to "go to war" in the name of religion.
Maybe so... But not all Muslim are poor. And there are as many Christian as Muslim who are poor.
Yes... Of course they are recruiting their suicide bombers from the poor un-educated class. But then again... Those guys who flew in the WTC were not un-educated. They had managed to obtain a pilot licence in the USA. And had organised that for two years.
I truly don't believe that being poor has much to do with it.
Sorry, I am late to this thread. I have some questions.
Quoted from SuziH
Timeline of trouble brewing From: Reuters
(...)
July 12 - Hezbollah guerrillas capture two Israeli soldiers and kill up to eight around the Lebanese border. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert calls it an "act of war" by Lebanon.
Was that the "cause" for Israel to bomb Lebanon? And were those Israeli soldiers captured and killed in Israeli or in Lebanon or in another country?
Sorry, I am late to this thread. I have some questions.
Was that the "cause" for Israel to bomb Lebanon? And were those Israeli soldiers captured and killed in Israeli or in Lebanon or in another country?
A couple of Israeli soldiers were kidnapped and taken to Lebanon as hostages. Nobody has heard from them yet. . they may already be dead. That is what starter this latest round of insanity.
DEMOCRACY = Voters deciding by Poll on who will be the local member that "Big Business" will push around.
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