Have a say on your thoughts on Immigration in this country. Recently a group of Papuan asylum seekers fled to Australia by boat and a decision to grant temporary asylum to the 42 Papuan boatpeople was given. Now the Indonesians are up in arms and crying foul. The Prime Minister has stuck by his guns and says he will not apologise to Indonesia for giving asylum to the terrified boatpeople. I don't think Australia should apologise and I don't see why we should be expected to.
Howard firm on Papuan visas By staff writers and wires April 18, 2006 Dr Yudhoyono ... Australia has a duplicitous attitude, he says.
PRIME Minister John Howard has ruled out apologising to Indonesia over Australia's decision to grant temporary asylum to 42 Papuan boatpeople. Mr Howard said today Australia had nothing to apologise for over the decision, which has seen relations between the two countries plunge to their lowest point since the East Timor crisis in 1999.
Australia's most senior diplomat, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade head Michael L'Estrange, will head to Jakarta for meetings with ministers and senior advisers to try to soothe Indonesian feelings.
Mr Howard said he expected to talk directly to Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono about the issue some time after Mr L'Estrange's visit.
But asked whether Australia needed to issue an apology, Mr Howard said: "No".
"This is a difficult issue," he said on Southern Cross Broadcasting in Perth.
"It's not an insurmountable problem, it's not an insoluble one, I'm sure we can work our way through it but it will take time.
"And it will take commonsense on both sides and it will take, on both sides, respect for the other's point of view.
"I respect the sensitivity of Indonesia towards the Papuan issue.
"Equally, I ask Indonesia to accept that we have a procedure, we have a process according to our interpretation of law, and we don't intend to bend and vary that because it's the code under which we live in this country."
Dr Yudhoyono has signalled a review of relations between Australia and Indonesia, saying his country cannot be harassed, played with, or deprived of fairness.
Indonesia insists Canberra had no reason to grant temporary visas to 42 of 43 Papuan separatists who landed in Cape York in January, claiming to be victims of human rights abuses.
Earlier today an Indonesian MP said Mr L'Estrange's mission to Jakarta would fail without ministerial representation.
Yesterday Dr Yudhoyono declared Australia's tougher immigration rhetoric needed to be backed by "concrete proof" that it supported his country's territorial integrity.
Speaking at the opening of an annual forum on national development, Dr Yudhoyono departed from his prepared script to launch an attack on what he described as Australia's duplicitous attitude to his Government.
He said Indonesia wanted to continue "contributing to the world order", but immediately warned Australia: "Don't insult us, don't toy with us and don't deny us justice."
Dr Yudhoyono received warm applause for his speech, during which he also warned: "Our position is clear: we must re-examine our co-operation and bilateral relationships with Australia so that they are genuinely fair."
Australia's toughened refugee policy has sparked allegations that the Government made the policy change to kowtow to Jakarta.
Former Australian diplomat Tony Kevin today described Canberra's policy as "unethical, illegal and dangerous" and the result of having "caved in to Indonesian blackmail".
Writing in The Australian, Mr Kevin warns that Australia's policy of "appeasement" would lead only to further demands from Jakarta.
"These policies send a wrong message, not just to the present fairly benign Indonesian Government, but also to darker extreme nationalist elements," he writes.
"The message: That an Australian Government can be threatened - even blackmailed - into abandoning essential values and interests. That is not a good message to send to any neighbour."
The Australian Democrats have also hit out at Canberra's handling of the dispute, saying the Howard Government should not apologise for protecting 42 asylum seekers from the Indonesian province of Papua.
"They have no right to expect any more. I think our government has already kowtowed on the issue, we've ignored long-running ... human rights abuses in our region, and specifically in West Papua, for long enough," Democrats Senator Natasha Stott Despoja said on ABC Radio.
"We've done the right thing by granting temporary protection visas to the 42 asylum seekers, it's now up to Australia to defend that decision, not to try changing our immigration laws in the wake of concerns expressed by the Indonesian government."
Labor predicted the Government's hardline stance on asylum seekers would be an expensive failure, with the cost of maintaining offshore detention centres running to $4 million per month.
"We're talking about extraordinary amounts of money simply for a public relations exercise," Opposition immigration spokesman Tony Burke said on ABC Radio. With The Australian and AAP
Prime Minister John Howard says Australia has nothing to apologise for over its granting of visas to a group of Papuan asylum seekers. The head of the Foreign Affairs Department, Michael L'Estrange, is expected to travel to Jakarta on Friday to meet the Indonesian Foreign Minister in an attempt to restore relations. But Indonesian MP Djoko Susilo does not expect the visit to succeed.
I rarely agree with anything this government does, but I do on this point. These people have obviously been checked out to some extent and, as a result of those "investigations", have been granted visas. The Indonesians wouldn't reverse a decision their govt. made just because we insisted, so they will just have to deal with it IMHO!
If the Indonesian government is such a kind, benevolent sovereignty, WHY do so many of their citizens take to dangerous seas with pirates and leaky boats to leave???
Also, . . why would any government want to force people to stay where they plainly don't want to live??. . it seems silly to me that any government would want to keep people who may become 'troublemakers' . . or disgruntled outsiders . . let them go . . if Oz is so bad. . they will soon find out and go back to Indonesia.
DEMOCRACY = Voters deciding by Poll on who will be the local member that "Big Business" will push around.
As far as I'm aware as a member of the United Nations we are obligated to grant temporary asylum to refugees. All we had to tell Indonesia is that we are bound, like it or lump it (in slightly nicer terms).
Quoted from Paula
I rarely agree with anything this government does, but I do on this point.
I haven't been following this that closely but didn't the pack of mongrels we have for a Government plan to refuse asylum to the next lot of refugees that came across?
Quoted from Gizmo
Migration may take a 'twist' soon as new standards of competence are suggested.
I wonder if this will apply to refugees, I hope not, that would be rediculous but our government is very capable of giving it a go!
I think it is a safety issue for new arrivals to Oz to be able to speak at least some English. ( as opposed to them being here 20 years and still 'no speaka' da English')
The Sudanese family a couple of months ago who lost a son for the sake of a phone call for help.
Police too have a problem when a crime is commited when the witnesses and victims can't speak a word or understand and what an excuse for strong cultures with 'domination issues' have women and children secreted away at home and having no contact with the outside world at all because they can't communicate.
If a basic standard is met for these skills (language & law) then there will never again be the disgusting scenario like recently when a gang of youths used their 'cultural background' as an excuse for vicious rapes and assault.
DEMOCRACY = Voters deciding by Poll on who will be the local member that "Big Business" will push around.
We speak english in Australia, join in or f#ck off really. Someone can't speak english they can't understand australian culture, leads to women being harassed, lifegaurds being beaten up, that kind of thing
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained. " The Doctor
Sure people should speak English, though I'm not sure of the standard necessary to gain permanent residency or citizenship.
What annoys me though is people who say everyone should speak only English, and complain about people speaking other languages, even to people who understand the language.
Also some people are too impatient and intollerant with people who have limited English. Just have a bit of patience and understanding. Its a basic kindness. They are making an effort to learn and participate in society.
[face=Geneva][/face][color=blue][/color]Ant farms- cruel and barbaric, or not that bad really?
Sure people should speak English, though I'm not sure of the standard necessary to gain permanent residency or citizenship.
What annoys me though is people who say everyone should speak only English, and complain about people speaking other languages, even to people who understand the language.
Also some people are too impatient and intollerant with people who have limited English. Just have a bit of patience and understanding. Its a basic kindness. They are making an effort to learn and participate in society.
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Quoted from aquamonkey
We speak english in Australia, join in or f#ck off really. Someone can't speak english they can't understand australian culture, leads to women being harassed, lifegaurds being beaten up, that kind of thing
This debate is about immigration in Australia concerned with asylum seekers from West Papua I don't know how this is related with english speaking etc. All discussions takes a turn towards problems related with immigrants but the truth is that lot of problems are due to less tolerant and Pro-White Australian society the foundation of which are based on exploitation and extermination of abroginal culture (The real Australians!). No matter how degrading and inhuman you are with low intellectual ability and criminal tendencies, if you are fair skinned it makes you successful in Australian society and act as coverup against immoral & heinous acts!.
The day this attitude will change will solve lot of existing problems in this country related with race and cultural issues.
To get back to the West Papuan thing, it strikes me that after all the "We will decide who enters Australia" stuff, the government are now hurriedly revising its whole asylum seekers policy in order to smooth things over with Indonesia.
[face=Geneva][/face][color=blue][/color]Ant farms- cruel and barbaric, or not that bad really?
THE Australian Greens are worried a nine-year-old asylum seeker who arrived on a Torres Strait island on Sunday will be put in an offshore detention centre.
The boy and his parents were found on Saibai Island, an Australian island just off the coastline of Papua New Guinea. They told immigration officials they were from Afghanistan. The Torres Strait islands have been excised from Australia's migration zone by the Government.
"Australia can and should process their claims on the mainland whilst allowing them to live in the community in the meantime," Greens senator Kerry Nettle.
"Afghanistan continues to be a very dangerous place where earlier this week at least 16 civilians were killed in coalition bombing raids and an Australian soldier was injured this week." Saibai Island resident Jamie Wire said once the family were found they were taken to local authorities.
"They said they were dropped off by a dinghy and one of the locals here took them to the chairman, they were talking English, they had suitcases with them, they were well dressed," Ms Wire said
So how did they get from Afghanistan to Papua New Guinea to begin with? First class plane tickets or second, luckily they didn't go to indonesia I think they're running out of fishing boats to send our way. Same old story, we got out of our own country (thanks to a big bundle of cash and a lot of bribes)....... to another one, but we want into australia anyway.
Why don't the dumb f#ck greens pay for hotel suites for everyone?
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained. " The Doctor
Human rights groups are calling on Prime Minister Julia Gillard to consider Australia's international obligations as she prepares to tighten border protection laws.
Ms Gillard is expected to take a tougher approach to border protection when she announces her policy on asylum seekers this week.
Insiders expect tougher deterrence measures, including returning many Afghan and Sri Lankan asylum seekers to their homelands.
Cabinet will today discuss the future of Sri Lankan asylum seekers who have been left in limbo since May, when the Government suspended processing of their refugee claims. The measure expires on Thursday.
So far this year 75 boats carrying asylum seekers have arrived in Australian waters, and the issue is the next item on Ms Gillard's list as she continues to clear the decks ahead of a federal election.
Ms Gillard signalled a break from Kevin Rudd's asylum seeker policy yesterday, when she said "political correctness" should not be allowed to hinder debate about the issue.
Ms Gillard said people who were anxious about border security should not be labelled racist.
"I'd like to sweep away any sense that people should close down any debate, including this debate, through a sense of self-censorship or political correctness," she said.
"People should feel free to say what they feel. For people to say they're anxious about border security doesn't make them intolerant. It certainly doesn't make them a racist - it means they're expressing a genuine view."
Ms Gillard also says the label "soft" should not be levelled at those who voice concerns about the treatment of detainees.
"People who express concern about children being in detention, that doesn't mean they're soft on border protection - it just means they're expressing a real human concern," she said.
Refugee Council of Australia president John Gibson is calling for calm and says Ms Gillard should not to re-introduce temporary protection visas.
Sophie Richardson, from the Washington-based group Human Rights Watch, says Australia has a great record, except when it comes to asylum seeker policies announced during election years.
"Clearly what they should do is get rid of these new and peculiar and frankly discriminatory standards with respect to Sri Lankans and Afghans, and return to the norm, which is very simple," she said.
"Anyone with a well-founded fear of persecution, regardless of where they are coming from, is entitled to at least the process which determines the veracity of their claim."
Political balancing act
The issue of border protection is difficult for Labor because polls show many voters want a tougher system, but that could alienate left-leaning Labor voters.
Earlier on Sunday, Education Minister Simon Crean indicated the Government's new policy would include working more closely with neighbouring countries.
But Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said the Government's only solution was to adopt the Coalition's policies of turning boats away, processing asylum seekers offshore and bringing back temporary protection visas.
"In just 10 weeks we've had another 31 boats [arrive] - more than 1,500 people," he said.
"That's more than three boats a week. Under the Howard government there were three boats a year."
Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young says the indications that Ms Gillard will harden the Government's stance on asylum seekers is disappointing.
"Julia Gillard is sending signals ... that she's prepared to chase Tony Abbott down that low road of Howard-style politics where children were detained behind bars ... and where vulnerable people were demonised," she said.
Human rights lawyer Julian Burnside QC says the Government's asylum seekers policy should be more compassionate.
He says for every one asylum seeker there are 20 new permanent immigrants to Australia.
"Permanent migrants come here because they think that Australia will be a better country for them. Refugees come to save their lives," he said.
"To whom do we owe a greater obligation?
"If you want to cut down numbers, do you look at the small group - the asylum seekers - or do you look at the big group - the permanent migrants?"
On the subject of boats it's bloody interesting how Labor can adjust their coarse when the tide changes, and luckily theirs plenty of hot air to fill the sails!
The PC squad never wake up to the fact that Joe tax payer is against the boaters mainly due to book of vouchers and showbag handed out after the RAN showboats them in and before they are taken to their hotel room!
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained. " The Doctor
Former prime minister Malcolm Fraser has voiced his support for Julia Gillard's plan for asylum seekers.
Mr Fraser set up Australia's first regional processing centres to deal with asylum seekers during the 1970s when the refugees were Vietnamese boat people.
He recently confirmed that he quit the Liberal Party that he once led, in part because of his disgust over the Coalition's scaremongering on asylum seekers.
Mr Fraser says Ms Gillard's policy is better than former Liberal prime minister John Howard's Pacific Solution.
"If the objective is to stop getting into dangerous boats and therefore to remove that element of danger, and also to take people smugglers out of the equation, then I think there is a significant difference between the Gillard policy and the opposition policy, which was really a revival of the Pacific Solution," he said.
"Which wasn't... people were still coming on boats, once they were caught they'd be taken off to some other remote island and to a place that was not a signatory to the Refugee Convention. I understand East Timor is a signatory to the Refugee Convention.
"That also creates an obligation, which makes for a real difference."
He says the Government should draw on the lessons learnt by the immigration of Vietnamese refugees during his time as prime minister.
"This to me has the opportunity to draw on the experience of the Indochinese exodus in the 1970s because that was a regional solution," he said.
"We were conscious that if the sorts of boats involved that would have been an extraordinarily dangerous journey and many thousands would have perished at sea without anyone knowing anything about it.
"We had to try to stop that happening, so establishing a centre in Malaysia was an essential part of that."
Bipartisan approach
Mr Fraser also praised Ms Gillard for taking the heat out of debate.
"She's laid some facts on the table about how the numbers of asylum seekers, especially the number of boats, are a very, very small part of total migration and indeed a small part of even refugee intake," she said.
"Parties [were] competing [on] who can be toughest, playing politics with the lives of people who were in many cases, the majority of cases fleeing terror at home.
"Now Australia is much better than that and so I hope that debate can be put aside and the language that Prime Minister Gillard set out, sort to give the facts, the numbers, the reasons for what she's doing.
"She's trying to take the emotion and the hype out of the debate and I would like to think that other people will respond."
He is now calling on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to adopt a bipartisan approach to the issue.
"I would advise the Opposition to back off and try to take steps that would enable a bipartisan policy to be adopted," he said.
"I think the Prime Minister while not mentioning bipartisan policy has certainly, by the language she has used, by the decisions she's made has, if the Opposition had the wits and the will, she's really opened the door to that possibility.
"But it's the most demeaning debate for Australia when you have political parties competing, you know who's toughest, who's nastiest to extraordinary vulnerable people. Now Australia is so much better than that."
But former Liberal defence minister Peter Reith, who negotiated the Pacific Solution, says Julia Gillard's plan is no different.
"For years the Labor Party basically belted people like me around the head for what we did with the Naru Pacific Solution and now we find that basically they were just playing a game that actually they now think this is the way to go," he said.
"I mean they are not going to make this happen, but I mean, talk about the ultimate vindication."
ALP beyatch and moan over the Libs pacific solution for years (dullard herself being very vocal) and then decide to do the same on East Timor..... WTF whats the cost to get this thing set up I wonder will East Timor do it on the cheap in exchange for the troops we seem to send over all the time in order to protect them?
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained. " The Doctor
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