Quoted from tramp

Iraq and the Taliban were all one time allies of America – makes you understand more why John Howard is afraid to upset them.  And this may seem appropriate in the current circumstances, but eventually the Americans will lose respect for Australia and will expect us to jump every time they say so.

*The “Americans” and “they” refer to the political masters of the time and not the American people as a community, who are just like us, diverse and passionate in their differences.

mod edit, so that the sentence makes sense

Why look back to move forward? Just because they use to be allies does that give them immunity from everything in the future. So much defeatism in the international politics forum.

Terrorism is a tool of last resort.  Too many people in the world today
feel totally disempowered and too many have nothing to lose.  
Some countries have arrived there faster than us but don't be fooled,
Australia and other western countries could find the same turmoil
at any moment. (Cronulla showed how quickly that could happen.)

The War on Terror will not be won by USA , they have succeeded in making it more entrenched . . . and wasted Billions $$$$ in the process.
George W. took on a politically/religiously/spiritually  flawed culture  that he could not understand . . and it is that misunderstanding that is costing many young Americans (and allies) lives.

We have just gotten the latest Janes Defence magazine at work (we subscribe to a slew of Defence stuff, it's how I keep up to date) and the US DoD is seeking a substantial increase in Defense spending (at the cost of health programs for the poor) because of the "War on Terror". As I was going through the areas they are looking to substantially increase (don't forget the US already spends much more than the rest of the world combined) there was one for several billion dollars to develop a Mach 10 hyper jet. Now how is a Mach 10 hyper jet going to stop a suicide bomber in Bali?

In fact a great percentage of the items they were looking for spending increases in had little or nothing to do with a war on terrorism. How can the US in anyway justify this massive spending on defence at the cost of looking after its citizens?

Quoted from boomslanger

. . . . .. How can the US in anyway justify this massive spending on defence at the cost of looking after its citizens?

Short answer . . .  

Quoted from boomslanger

We have just gotten the latest Janes Defence magazine at work (we subscribe to a slew of Defence stuff, it's how I keep up to date) and the US DoD is seeking a substantial increase in Defense spending (at the cost of health programs for the poor) because of the "War on Terror". As I was going through the areas they are looking to substantially increase (don't forget the US already spends much more than the rest of the world combined) there was one for several billion dollars to develop a Mach 10 hyper jet. Now how is a Mach 10 hyper jet going to stop a suicide bomber in Bali?

In fact a great percentage of the items they were looking for spending increases in had little or nothing to do with a war on terrorism. How can the US in anyway justify this massive spending on defence at the cost of looking after its citizens?

O.K fair enough. What are thought on their true motives then.

Quoted from blahNii

Terrorism is a tool of last resort.  Too many people in the world today feel totally disempowered and too many have nothing to lose.  
Some countries have arrived there faster than us but don't be fooled, Australia and other western countries could find the same turmoil at any moment. (Cronulla showed how quickly that could happen.)

Makes you wonder if we have actually evolved much from the Chimpanzee gangs in the African jungles?

Quoted from blahNii

The War on Terror will not be won by USA , they have succeeded in making it more entrenched . . . and wasted Billions $$$$ in the process.

If the 'war on terror' (read: raid on oil) fails and America is forced to leave Iraq and handover control of the oil where will America look to next to meet it's ravenous need for energy? Bet the neocons are thinking "lil ol Australia has some Uranium that we could take, we wouldn't even have to rob them, they're dumb enough to give it to us for free".

Quoted from blahNii

George W. took on a politically/religiously/spiritually flawed culture that he could not understand

I know you know that we are also "politically/religiously/spiritually flawed" as well right? It's just that we can vote without worrying about being blown up in the line, and we're not chopping each other's heads off and aimlessly dying for a cause.

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

O.K fair enough. What are thought on their true motives then.

It is probably not just one thing and there are probably papers on it somewhere. My boss who deals with Americans all the time (we rep several big US Defence companies) says the main reason is that they are paranoid. It goes to why they are so adamant on being allowed to own guns, even ones whose sole purpose is to kill people, yet still have the worst criminal murder and gun crime rate in the world. Whilst next door in Canada they actually have more guns per person than the US but leave their doors open and cars unlocked, with one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world.

Americans are just paranoid about defending themselves and their God given right to be the most powerful country on the planet. America is the only country in the world who has refused to sign up to the ban of space based weapons and in fact have a very scary weapon in space (the only country with one) called "The Rods From God", (look it up and only America would call a deadly weapon they invented as coming from God). That is the other side of it, their inherent belief that everything they do is from God and only they have the God given right to be the arbiters of the world. So a massive defence force to force their God given right onto others is part of why they spend so much on it. The US Air Force General in charge of Space Based Defence stated in a piece from one of our magazines exactly that. The right to control space is God given to America and it is up to America to make sure they completely dominate it, stopping anyone else from even coming close to matching the US in space even if they are allies. He went on to say that the US has the right to not only shoot down anything that flies in space directly over US territories but the have the God given right to put anything they like over anybodies else's space without retaliation. In fact they would consider that an act of war.

I mention all this to illustrate the complete paranoia of the US and their inherent belief they are the rightful rulers of the world, which comes to another reason for having such a massive sophisticated defence force way beyond what they need to defend themselves. Imperialism.

Currently the US are building large permanent bases everywhere they can put them, Eastern Europe, S.E. Asia, M.E., all over Western Europe and many other places including plans for another spy base and two permanent military bases in Australia. They will openly support any dictator that allows them to set up bases and gives them their oil and have no compunction in turning a blind eye to what the dictator is doing. They did that with Saddam. Did you know that nearly all of Saddam's most atrocious massacres occurred when he was friends with the US, and the Americans knew about them all but covered up for him. In fact Saddam's human rights violations subsided substantially when he kicked the US out of the country and it was the sanctions that were doing most of the damage.

Too much more but it's all there if you search, and I don't mean on radical sites, but in books like Kinzers and Kings, plus many other professors and respected experts on world affairs.

I have to commend you on your method of debate in recent times .    . . it seems you have learned  enough about me to assume correctly today . .  

Quoted from x452

I know you know that we are also "politically/religiously/spiritually flawed" as well right? It's just that we can vote without worrying about being blown up in the line, and we're not chopping each other's heads off and aimlessly dying for a cause. . .

Of course, we have a flawed system here too. George W. understands 'his kind of people' of which Australians fit the mould.  
He fully underestimates the zeal of the middle east regimes . .  and as a 'nominal Christian' he will never understand the Islamic ideal of 'liberty or death'.  .

Quoted from x452

Makes you wonder if we have actually evolved much from the Chimpanzee gangs in the African jungles?

If only we were evolving FROM the chimps . .we would be improving by the decade . . (and chimps would be moving forward too.)
The problem is . .we are 'devolving' . . sinking into a mire of crime and injustice that robs billions worldwide of basic dignity and human rights. . .all in the chase for the mighty dollar . . the bottom line is the worlds most dangerous place . .(and not on my tourism list.)

We know and imagine things much grander and more noble than we actually achieve . . why can't we do the right thing?  

Quoted from The_Pragmatic_One

O.K fair enough. What are thought on their true motives then.

Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed
A poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed,
Then one day he was shootin at some food,
And up through the ground came a bubblin crude.
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.

Well the first thing you know ol Jed's a millionaire,
Kinfolk said "Jed move away from there"
Said "Californy is the place you ought to be"
So they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly.
Hills, that is. Swimmin pools, movie stars.

Well now its time to say good by to Jed and all his kin.
And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin in.
You're all invited back a gain to this locality
To have a heapin helpin of their hospitality
Hillybilly that is. Set a spell, Take your shoes off.
Y'all come back now, y'hear?.

Just about sums it up for me!

Quoted from x452

Makes you wonder if we have actually evolved much from the Chimpanzee gangs in the African jungles?

We stopped evolving when we first started using tools - No longer did we need to adapt to the environment.  So in essence, we have cavemen with their finger on the button.  And one look at George Bush and Kim Jong-il proves my point.

Quoted from tramp

We stopped evolving when we first started using tools - No longer did we need to adapt to the environment.  So in essence, we have cavemen with their finger on the button.  And one look at George Bush and Kim Jong-il proves my point.

It also seems as though chimpanzees have access to computing equipment and a log on for an eblah forum.  

Is Andrew Bold a member?

Quoted from tramp

Is Andrew Bold a member?

Huh? Dont know much about Andrew Bold If you are implying that I am him.  

Who is Andrew Bold?

Nice avatar, The Pragmatic One!

Quoted from Paula

Who is Andrew Bold?

Nice avatar, The Pragmatic One!

I had good guidance, from a very wise one.